The Tension Before the Approach

[Ulax]

1 hour ago, Jirh said:

Early cringe of the month 🤢

lmao

[Ulax]

3 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

@Valach haha 

Omg! Again trying to tell me how I feel or how I work! 

How can you not see this? 

Literally mansplaning. Surely you are aware enough to see how weird you are being? 

He's making points about female psychology.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

37 minutes ago, Ulax said:

He's making points about female psychology.

Perhaps that is the intention (to display his knowledge around general female tendencies) - but the rhetoric used changes the entire statement. And the rhetoric used is to make an assessment about how I work without consideration of outliers and the great variation in people's psychology. AION moved from describing a population-level tendency to making a personal psychological claim about me, while simultaneously dismissing my own report about myself.

If you inspect the phrasing:

Quote

Doubt that. If Owen chose you you would feel like a lucky woman. Considering from all the options he has. 

"I know your internal response better than you know you do."

Also note - "doubt that" doubts what I personally asserted about myself and how I work. I am being told how I work. There is no listening to what is being said. 

Compare that to a statement that would not be so personally targeted:

Quote

If Owen chooses a woman, most women would feel lucky. Considering from all the options he has.

The above would be a more nuanced display of general knowledge & tendencies of female psychology.

_____

It is fine to make general statements about how some women work. But it is a trap to think all women work the same way.

Just as it would be as unfair to say all men are simple slaves to their sex drives and will abandon their wives at the first sniff off younger puss.

[Ulax]

1 minute ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Perhaps that is the intention (to display his knowledge around general female tendencies) - but the rhetoric used changes the entire statement. And the rhetoric used is to make an assessment about how I work without consideration of outliers and the great variation in people's psychology. AION moved from describing a population-level tendency to making a personal psychological claim about me, while simultaneously dismissing my own report about myself.

If you inspect the phrasing:

"I know your internal response better than you know you do."

Also note - "doubt that" doubts what I personally asserted about myself and how I work. I am being told how I work. There is no listening to what is being said. 

Compare that to a statement that would not be so personally targeted:

The above would be a more nuanced display of general knowledge & tendencies of female psychology.

_____

It is fine to make general statements about how some women work. But it is a trap to think all women work the same way.

Just as it would be as unfair to say all men are simple slaves to their sex drives and will abandon their wives at the first sniff off younger puss.

Fair points.

Except its not unreasonable to believe you understand someone's internal responses better than they do.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

15 minutes ago, Ulax said:

Fair points.

Except its not unreasonable to believe you understand someone's internal responses better than they do.

You can believe whatever you want via whatever inference or whatever heuristic you have developed. But it is still inferred. Not known. It is a belief. 

My heuristic for knowing AION has no idea how I respond internally is his continual and systematic misunderstanding of me throughout our entire history of the forum.

The arrogance of thinking we understand someone's internal responses better than they do must also be inspected. This rolls back into having charitable and good faith discussions. There's another distinction underneath this: holding a model of someone vs remaining receptive to evidence that your model is wrong. Models of others are provisional until we have further evidence. AION has a model of how he thinks I would respond. That's fine. But I supplied direct evidence about my actual response, and instead of treating that as information capable of updating his model, he dismissed it.

So in this instance it is reasonable to know I (and my internal responses) am being misunderstood.

[Olaf]

Lets all be respectful to each other, otherwise I will close or delete this topic

Edited 1 hour ago by Olaf

[Ulax]

17 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

You can believe whatever you want via whatever inference or whatever heuristic you have developed. But it is still inferred. Not known. It is a belief. 

My heuristic for knowing AION has no idea how I respond internally is his continual and systematic misunderstanding of me throughout our entire history of the forum.

The arrogance of thinking we understand someone's internal responses better than they do must also be inspected. This rolls back into having charitable and good faith discussions. There's another distinction underneath this: holding a model of someone vs remaining receptive to evidence that your model is wrong. Models of others are provisional until we have further evidence. AION has a model of how he thinks I would respond. That's fine. But I supplied direct evidence about my actual response, and instead of treating that as information capable of updating his model, he dismissed it.

So in this instance it is reasonable to know I (and my internal responses) am being misunderstood.

Glad you see me as so confident .

You must think academics, neuroscientists and advertisers are the height of arrogance then.

[Inliytened1]

4 hours ago, Jirh said:

Early cringe of the month 🤢

Hey he is claiming her...I kinda wanted dibbs but he beat me to it.  Not cringe.  She's quality.

Not sure where we are gonna find her elsewhere.

[Ulax]

32 minutes ago, Olaf said:

Lets all be respectful to each other, otherwise I will close or delete this topic

👏

[Natasha Tori Maru]

37 minutes ago, Ulax said:

You must think academics, neuroscientists and advertisers are the height of arrogance then.

No, not necessarily. I never said you cannot infer and be accurate. If you read my passage again, I explicitly grant that inference is legitimate.

Inference is fine; treating it as knowledge is a problem.

[Ulax]

5 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

No, not necessarily. I never said you cannot infer and be accurate. If you read my passage again, I explicitly grant that inference is legitimate.

Inference is fine; treating it as knowledge is a problem.

You misunderstand my point

[Natasha Tori Maru]

1 minute ago, Ulax said:

You misunderstand my point

Feel free to elaborate.

[Leo Gura]

On 8/11/2026 at 5:26 AM, Andrey said:

 

He is both a genius and a creepy loser.

Nonduality. Yin-yang.

Edited 54 minutes ago by Leo Gura

[Joseph Maynor]

He is a great speaker in some of his videos.  I can appreciate that.  He has a lot of charisma.  

[Ulax]

6 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Feel free to elaborate.

I was challenging this claim "The arrogance of thinking we understand someone's internal responses better than they do must also be inspected"

[Natasha Tori Maru]

2 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

He is a great speaker in some of his videos.  I can appreciate that.  He has a lot of charisma.  

I agree with this!

[Natasha Tori Maru]

Just now, Ulax said:

I was challenging this claim "The arrogance of thinking we understand someone's internal responses better than they do must also be inspected"

So my claim there is that it should be something to be considered. Healthy doubt to test our knowing.

This is just a normative/epistemic claim and part of critical thinking.

You don't think this is necessary?

[Ulax]

2 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

So my claim there is that it should be something to be considered. Healthy doubt to test our knowing.

This is just a normative/epistemic claim and part of critical thinking.

You don't think this is necessary?

That's a different argument to your original claim

[Natasha Tori Maru]

1 minute ago, Ulax said:

That's a different argument to your original claim

Can you quote me, or give me some more of your interpretation here? It could simply be that context was lost in the back and forth, because this originally was about a specific interaction with history. I could possibly have branched off in a way that isn't specific to the initial interaction.

[Ulax]

9 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Can you quote me, or give me some more of your interpretation here? It could simply be that context was lost in the back and forth, because this originally was about a specific interaction with history. I could possibly have branched off in a way that isn't specific to the initial interaction.

My interpretation was you were arguing that someone's understanding of their inner experiences ought to be prioritised over an outsider's understanding of them