Professor Dave goes off on Destiny and Israel 🇮🇱

[Nivsch]

38 minutes ago, hundreth said:

They mostly vote Likud from a fear and security concern standpoint. 

What eats Israel from inside

[Leo Gura]

Of course security is the whole issue.

You can't take security for granted and understand politics.

Edited 3 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Karmadhi]

13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You can't take security for granted and understand politics.

Using your logic Russia invasion of Ukraine is justified since it is a security issue there too

 

[Raze]

No, Likud wins because it promises both supremacy and security. The pitch is that they can oppress and kill Palestinians as much as they want without having fear of their quality of life or security ever declining.

Rabin was assassinated because he was suggesting they’d need to compromise and give Palestinians some rights or their security and international support would worsen too much. The left parties in Israel fail because on one hand the population fears they may end their supremacy over the Palestinians and on the other the left tries to avoid that criticism by outflanking Netanyahu from the right, thus losing credibility as people will just choose the one with the track record of using ruthless force on the people of Palestine.

Netanyahu is popular because he pushes the idea they can subjugate Palestinians forever and still have security and international support. That was the idea behind the Abraham accords and pushing for US intervention in the region, to use Americans as the tax cattle and meat shields to enforce Israel’s position without compromising on ending their subjugation and destruction of Palestinians.

That’s why on Oct 7 all the Zionists fully supported Israel taking the opportunity to eliminate the Palestinians and escalate aggression to try and turn Iran into a failed state like Syria, which is what they always wanted but lacked the pretext to do without losing their international support.

The issue is this failed, international pressure did limit their action in Palestine (they had to end the starvation siege), and Iran survived the attacks.

So liberal Zionists are reverting back to their prior message that actually they just want peace so everyone should still support Israel because they are secretly against what is happening, instead allowing israel to shift back to the incremental approach of slowly destroying Palestine and pushing for cracking down on international critics to buy time to do it further. 

Edited 2 hours ago by Raze

[Karmadhi]

 

Why are they so shameless?

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Karmadhi

[Leo Gura]

11 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

Using your logic Russia invasion of Ukraine is justified since it is a security issue there too

1) I was not justifying anything.

2) Of course Russia/Ukraine is about security. That proves my point.

[Nivsch]

@Raze From my experience I think your interpretation of Israelis' motivations is wrong

[hundreth]

2 hours ago, Raze said:

Rabin was assassinated because he was suggesting they’d need to compromise and give Palestinians some rights or their security and international support would worsen too much.

Yes, that's the point. This was not celebrated in Israel and his assassin was viewed as a radical extremist both domestically and abroad. It was a tragic and traumatic event in Israel. The way you talk about Israeli society's motives, there should have been celebrations and euphoria in the streets. 
 

Quote

So liberal Zionists are reverting back to their prior message that actually they just want peace so everyone should still support Israel because they are secretly against what is happening, instead allowing israel to shift back to the incremental approach of slowly destroying Palestine and pushing for cracking down on international critics to buy time to do it further. 

I don't really care for all the buckets like "Zionists" and "Liberal Zionists" which have just become a meme and straw man to attack all of Israeli society. Many of us have been for a two state solution both before Oct 7 and after. For decades before, in fact. So I'm not sure what message has been reverted. 

Your interpretation is that there's only two Israelis, genocide or mow the lawn. Can't say I agree. It's a cynical world view that doesn't help in any way. Even if you're right, you dismiss this side and Palestinians are destroyed faster? What have you accomplished? 

We also don't care if you "support Israel." It is simply being practical. The only path forward that results in the least violence and tragedy is a two state solution. There are Jews & Israelis who support that. You can call their bluff and work with them. You might find that instead of being accused of being genocidal maniacs all the time, these parts of society would respond better and there may be enough built up pressure to effect some change. On the other hand, insisting on this cynical world view and continually advocating for endless "one-state" Palestinian resistance pushes away Jews and ultimately harms more Palestinians as the right becomes more powerful and continues their campaign. Fighting for a Palestinian state is worthwhile. Fighting to eliminate the evil Jewish ethno state as a matter of principle is a exercise in futility and delusion with tragic consequences.