The Most Optimized Way to Cold-Approach a Woman

[Zenterus]

Below is an excerpt from a .PDF I've been developing for some time now where I transcribe ALL MY KNOWLEDGE about women, dating and pick-up. This document is being created in order to distill down all my lessons from the last 10 years of doing pick-up, so that in case I get into a serious long-term monogamous relationship for multiple years and then end up breaking up, I will have the most high-consciousness information at my fingertips without having to refer to other pick-up coaches and/or having to re-learn the same lessons again in the field.  

The document is intended for personal use, therefore the language is in the first-person perspective, so keep in mind that depending on where you are in your journey, this information might not be of much help to you. I have 10 years of pickup experience, so the way that I operate within an interaction might not be transferrable to you as a beginner or intermediate, because I might not have the same mental limitations that you currently do in your journey. However, I thought it valuable to share and hope that it could provide insights to those that are ready for them. Enjoy.

THE OPTIMIZED APPROACH – SUBTLETY & INDIVIDUALITY

The ideal dynamic within an interaction is one that promotes mystery and provides the woman with a unique experience that feels spontaneous. Furthermore, the best approaches reinforce a narrative in which I am a high value man who is on his purpose, living an awesome life and while doing so, I just happened to run into this woman who peaked my curiosity and, thus, after interacting with her from a place of intrigue and skepticism, she eventually wins me over and sparks more genuine romantic/sexual interest from me.

To create this dynamic, a more indirect approach is preferred that’s more focused on drawing her in, because it doesn’t give immediate resolution to the mystery and it allows for the interaction to feel more natural in its progression. Additionally, this type of approach allows for versatility in case the girl doesn’t meet my qualifications and I choose to befriend her instead, or if I decide I want to pursue someone else within her social circle. Another bonus, is that this approach protects me against building a reputation of going around complimenting every girl.

Do not confuse this type of approach as hiding my intentions. The girl will view the interaction as a sexual/romantic encounter, no matter if I directly state it or not, as a result of the sex worthy vibe that I’m giving off and the assumed attraction in my behavior, but ideally, I will not overtly communicate that unless it’s through very subtle statements or qualifications that still maintain mystery and a high-value narrative or some form of push-pull that takes her on an emotional journey around whether she’s winning me over or losing me.

This type of approach hinges on the fact that “subtlety is key.” That not only includes the man-to-woman nature of the interaction but also the logistics of it. I want to find out whether she has a boyfriend, where she lives, whether she’s with friends or not, what her time availability is, etc, without it being overtly obvious that I have an agenda behind asking these questions.

Having that said, while ideally an indirect-direct approach where I’m just a cool sex-worthy guy who is simply sharing some good vibes with this girl and naturally draws her in is better, making my intentions overtly obvious is also a viable strategy, as long as it is paired with a good dose of skepticism on whether or not she’s a good fit for me – in order to inject that tension of “can I have him or not?” – as well as a unique and creative way of building that man-to-woman frame (notice I said frame not intent, more on that later) that highlights my individuality and puts me in my very own category rather than the girl perceiving me like I’m every other guy, using the same lines.

Lastly, the ideal approach should be coming from a frame of assumed familiarity, meaning that I believe I’m on the girl’s level, I believe we’re already friends, I assume she’s going to like me and so I approach with a very chill, playful and laid-back demeanor, almost as if we’re already friends. This should come through in my tonality, in the smoothness of the approach and the way I naturally interact with her as if there’re no filters between us. If she feels like she knows me or wonders if we met before, that’s a very good sign.

[Joseph Maynor]

The answer is very simple.  Just talk to people.  Talk to anyone.  All this theory is really ridiculous.  Be the kind of person who can talk to everyone.  

[Zenterus]

@Joseph Maynor Brother, if it was that simple, guys would be getting laid all over. What are your results like, dating-wise? Do you actually have real world, extensive pick up experience? Or do you just sit on this forum day in and out, theorizing what you THINK should work? 

[Leo Gura]

Indirect is more effective but requires more skill to pull off.

Direcrt is good so guys don't overthink it or make excuses to not approach at all. Direct is better than zero.

Indirect is good to learn once you have the basics of direct approach learned.

Edited yesterday at 11:13 AM by Leo Gura

[Zenterus]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Indirect is more effective but requires more skill to pull off.

Direcrt is good so guys don't overthink it or make excuses to not approach at all. Direct is better than zero.

Indirect is good to learn once you have the basics of direct approach learned.

Im curious, do you still go out at all? Cause based on your activity on the forum, you seem quite interested in male to female dynamics still. 

[MarkKol]

The more I live the more I realize that women just want Tony Soprano

Tony Soprano is the ideal stereotype for what they want

Edited 22 hours ago by MarkKol

[Miguel1]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Indirect is more effective but requires more skill to pull off.

Direcrt is good so guys don't overthink it or make excuses to not approach at all. Direct is better than zero.

Indirect is good to learn once you have the basics of direct approach learned.

Indirect during daygame, stopping someone when they are walking full speed is the problem.

At most, ”a half indirect” can work.

[Miguel1]

It’s a good post. Much more details can be involved but this is good overall.

I would add being more social, just for the sake of socializing. This keeps you in a good state and momentum, so when you bump into a truly attractive girl, the playful ”I dont care about your validation” state really oozes off of you.

[Spiral]

This whole thing is like a spectrum, you either do canned lines. Or you become the type of guy, girls actually like. Or something in-between. 

Here is a pretty basic hard scripted way to do things. I’m kinda enjoying these to mix things up. Y for you G for girl.

Y: Hey, can I get your opinion on something?

G: sure

Y: Do I look like a drug dealer?

G: haha no

Y: Two girls has already come up asking for weed. This is getting out of hand (you can say this with a joking tone if you like).

Now you have a fun and useful frame for the rest of the interaction. Results may vary in countries were weed is legal

Edited 20 hours ago by Spiral

[aurum]

8 hours ago, Zenterus said:

I just happened to run into this woman who peaked my curiosity and, thus, after interacting with her from a place of intrigue and skepticism, she eventually wins me over and sparks more genuine romantic/sexual interest from me

The problem I see here is that "wins me over" quickly turns into "have sex with her without showing any real interest in long-term potential".

I find this just doesn't work well if you want something serious. I don't even want to sleep with her if I don't see long-term potential at this point.

[Valach]

10 minutes ago, aurum said:

The problem I see here is that "wins me over" quickly turns into "have sex with her without showing any real interest in long-term potential".

I find this just doesn't work well if you want something serious. I don't even want to sleep with her if I don't see long-term potential at this point.

Agreed. Feels like game is not really tailored for finding a quality relationship. It is after all gamey and real relationships are about autheticity and vulnerability.

[aurum]

4 minutes ago, Valach said:

Agreed. Feels like game is not really tailored for finding a quality relationship. It is after all gamey and real relationships are about autheticity and vulnerability.

I don't think it's so much of an issue around authenticity as it is about goal optimization.

Most of the time with pickup, your goal is to have sex. The relationship only has to be successful until tomorrow, which basically means you can just coast on good vibes. And your process needs to be repeatable, since you probably want to do this more than once.

With long-term relationships, you're just not optimizing for sex. There's some overlap of course, because you still want attraction, flirtation, investment etc. But you also need to be thinking more long-term.

[Valach]

1 minute ago, aurum said:

I don't think it's so much of an issue around authenticity as it is about goal optimization.

Most of the time with pickup, your goal is to have sex. The relationship only has to be successful until tomorrow, which basically means you can just coast on good vibes. And your process needs to be repeatable, since you probably want to do this more than once.

With long-term relationships, you're just not optimizing for sex. There's some overlap of course, because you still want attraction, flirtation, investment etc. But you also need to be thinking more long-term.

It is kind of what I meant. When you are screening for longterm relationships, there is gonna be some boredom/seriousness between the two of you. You can coast on just good vibes and emotional stimulations but then you don't really know the person and she does not know you.

I do not really like the route that gets often repeated in the pickup community - that you start the longterm relationship the same way you start casual one. This does not lead to longterm satisfaction. At least in my (very subjective) opinion.

[aurum]

3 hours ago, Valach said:

I do not really like the route that gets often repeated in the pickup community - that you start the longterm relationship the same way you start casual one. This does not lead to longterm satisfaction. At least in my (very subjective) opinion.

Yes that narrative is a bit simplistic.

It can work to some degree, but I think it's also worth letting go of at a certain point.

[Miguel1]

6 hours ago, aurum said:

I don't even want to sleep with her if I don't see long-term potential at this point.

The more I mature the more I agree with this.

The problem with most girls is that it’s better to go the fuckboy route with them first until sex, then bring up relatioship qualities in you.

But the truth is, you probably don’t want a relationship with these girls who needs fuckboy route first, anyways. They are probably more unstable and immature, in general.

———

I wanted to share this new insight I got lately somewhere but I didn’t have a place for it. But this is a good one.

So lately, my new favourite ”targets” are girls who are with their moms. Man, if a girl has a good relationship with her mother, and the mother likes me (the easy part), these are two extremely good signs of it going somewhere really good with the girl.

[aurum]

23 minutes ago, Miguel1 said:

The more I mature the more I agree with this.

The problem with most girls is that it’s better to go the fuckboy route with them first until sex, then bring up relatioship qualities in you.

But the truth is, you probably don’t want a relationship with these girls who needs fuckboy route first, anyways. They are probably more unstable and immature, in general.

There's probably a realistic middle.

Little bit of fuckboy isn't bad. Especially in the beginning.

23 minutes ago, Miguel1 said:

I wanted to share this new insight I got lately somewhere but I didn’t have a place for it. But this is a good one.

So lately, my new favourite ”targets” are girls who are with their moms. Man, if a girl has a good relationship with her mother, and the mother likes me (the easy part), these are two extremely good signs of it going somewhere really good with the girl.

Mom game  

[Miguel1]

5 hours ago, aurum said:

There's probably a realistic middle.

Little bit of fuckboy isn't bad. Especially in the beginning.

That makes sense.

I definitely still have a bunch of fuckboyness in me that oftentimes comes out.

What do you think about this concept:

If a girl is confused about whether you are a fuckboy or a bf material, it is a problem in itself.

——-

And mom game, I love it 

I just love meeting these girls with their family, only good stuff comes out of it

[aurum]

47 minutes ago, Miguel1 said:

I definitely still have a bunch of fuckboyness in me that oftentimes comes out.

What do you think about this concept:

If a girl is confused about whether you are a fuckboy or a bf material, it is a problem in itself.

I'd say no, assuming it's still early on and you're not misrepresenting yourself.

If you're married and she's still not sure, that's a problem.

Neither fuckboyness or bf-material-ness is the issue. The issue is when and how much.

[Zenterus]

18 hours ago, Miguel1 said:

Indirect during daygame, stopping someone when they are walking full speed is the problem.

At most, ”a half indirect” can work.

I dont fully agree with this.

 

Approaching indirect can work as long either: a) you transition effectively into a more direct approach later on, or b) your subcommunications are clearly displaying a sensual sexy vibe

The later has actually become a problem for me since even when im trying to make friends with girls they often feel like im flirting even though im not because my vibe is naturally sensual, fun and dominant. So i have to explicitly make it known that im not looking for anything.

Going in indirect works better than full direct from the start cause it buys you some time to showcase some personality first before the girl is put in a position where she has to make a decision.

Edited 2 hours ago by Zenterus

[Miguel1]

@Zenterus I can see a half-indirect working but how do you stop someone walking full speed with full indirect?

It feels so disgenuine.

In nightlife, I love indirect as I am just trolling people on the open, which is genuine and aligned.