Women are attracted to relativity

[Basman]

1 hour ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

@Basman you can sit down for a brainstorming session, and critically think through all the systems that might influence how attraction isn't a binary split between subjective/objective. It's more of a spectrum. You also have to define what you mean particularly with the term "attraction"

"Fairly objective and obvious" - that word fairly is loaded with... A lot of nuance. It's potentially doing a lot of work there.

Even babies can recognize when someone is attractive.  It's largely genetic. Humans don't find other species sexually attractive, like horses or lions, even if they have good genes for that reason (outside of weird fetishes).  

[Natasha Tori Maru]

26 minutes ago, Basman said:

Even babies can recognize when someone is attractive.  It's largely genetic. Humans don't find other species sexually attractive, like horses or lions, even if they have good genes for that reason (outside of weird fetishes).  

This is a silly comparison that doesn't argue for true objective attraction as a binary. Babies don't stare at women waists for their waist to hip ratio. Most of the time they are fixated on eye colour and shape. Facial expressions of laughter and smiling catch them more than facial aesthetics (but there are trends in looks that are more universally attractive). This only points toward some parameters that can be indicative of objective attractiveness. Not that hotness is totally objective. 

There's a huge leap you make from evidence of shared preferences to proof of objective attractiveness. 

Picking some extreme example isn't arguing your case.

Edited 19 hours ago by Natasha Tori Maru

[Jirh]

43 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

@Jirh I think this is a really solid, fair dissection of the flaws and assumptions behind the fallacy of claiming there is some subjective/objective binary looks or "hotness" can fit neatly in. 

Arguing for the '"absolute hotness" - sounds bizarre.

There's no clean way about it. How the fuck am I meant to fully understand just how much culture and images have affected my own barometer? How can that even be quantified? You could try to run the claim that we 'biologically react outside of cerebral preferences obtained from the social domain' but even in biological response alone, there is a large variation in response. 

Lets see some "absolute hot" claims

Yeah, let's see.

Though, to clarify, I think there are two points being discussed simultaneously:

1. Objective attractiveness metrics across all cultures and people (with or without exceptions).
2. Objective attractiveness metrics within cultures.

The first discussion is just absurd. I won't even engage in it because it's just too silly to consider.

I think the second discussion has some merit, but it's still largely flawed and clouded by layers of misunderstandings and ego.

And like you highlighted, I think the media and culture (in addition to many other factors) shape and influence our unconscious minds in ways that we cannot fully understand.

So even if we grant some culture some objective metrics, they're still the result of mass brainwashing, not a genuine expression of truth. Which keeps the discussion at stalemate.

[mmKay]

 

 

[JJfromSwitzerland]

On 21.6.2026 at 11:41 AM, Leo Gura said:

Fame is the greatest game.

If you got fame you can always get laid.

So why are most women not into Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos or Donald Trump? The women I know find these guys disgusting. Yes these guys do have wives and all of that but I guarantee the relationship these guys have with women are shallow, they will never experience deep connections with another human being. It's all performative. Also you guys always talk about attracting women and never about how to maintain a longterm relationship which is a complete different thing... What if you get cancer, what if you become bankrupt, will then all women leave based on these theories? In reality, most women won't....

Edited 14 hours ago by JJfromSwitzerland

[Basman]

5 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

This is a silly comparison that doesn't argue for true objective attraction as a binary. Babies don't stare at women waists for their waist to hip ratio. Most of the time they are fixated on eye colour and shape. Facial expressions of laughter and smiling catch them more than facial aesthetics (but there are trends in looks that are more universally attractive). This only points toward some parameters that can be indicative of objective attractiveness. Not that hotness is totally objective. 

There's a huge leap you make from evidence of shared preferences to proof of objective attractiveness. 

Picking some extreme example isn't arguing your case.

It clearly does.

No one saying it's binary.

[AION]

I don’t belong to the top 5 in the room most of the time but I do get advances from women but they are usually from women I don’t want to be with. Sometimes I notice hot women being attracted by me but they are too prideful and too feminine to make a move. As a guy just looking good is not enough. Even if you belong to the top 5 as a guy we still have to read the room and make almost psychopathic moves. Women on the other hand just get sex thrown at them for existing. Guys who think too much about sex and how to get aka they are neurotic about it. Male neuroticism (overthinking, second guessing, being insecure, not knowing what to say or to do) is n1 killer of female boners. 

Edited 13 hours ago by AION

[NewKidOnTheBlock]

3 hours ago, JJfromSwitzerland said:

So why are most women not into Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos or Donald Trump? The women I know find these guys disgusting. Yes these guys do have wives and all of that but I guarantee the relationship these guys have with women are shallow, they will never experience deep connections with another human being.

Nerdy, usefull shit is boring and the opposite of emotionally stimulating, that's why. Also obviously they are mean rich capitalists, which equals meanie bad emotions. And they're ugly. And they're not really famous as much as influential because of the material success they've achieved, throught which they became famous, but there are different kinds of fame. Only specific kinds of fame are really the game changers, such as being famous and good looking anywhere in the music industry. That's the king I think

[LordFall]

3 hours ago, JJfromSwitzerland said:

So why are most women not into Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos or Donald Trump? The women I know find these guys disgusting. Yes these guys do have wives and all of that but I guarantee the relationship these guys have with women are shallow, they will never experience deep connections with another human being. It's all performative. Also you guys always talk about attracting women and never about how to maintain a longterm relationship which is a complete different thing... What if you get cancer, what if you become bankrupt, will then all women leave based on these theories? In reality, most women won't....

I mean those guys get a lot of attractive women. You're probably right no those particular cases because these men don't seem particularly emotionally available and doubt they worked on their emotional trauma.

You can be wildly successful and still have women that deeply love you and are loyal to you. Probably many of them at once in a polyamorous setup as well. 

@AION A good tip is wearing stuff that stands out so women have an easy opener to talk to you. I get a lot of compliments on my necklace even though it's just a $8 one from H&M. I know this works because sometimes I want an opener to talk to a woman that I find pretty but she's not wearing something that stands out so I have to go full direct or usually just go along the rest of my day without having talked to her. 

Edited 10 hours ago by LordFall

[Leo Gura]

13 hours ago, Jirh said:

you have a developed preference within a tradition.

The tradition of nice tits and ass?

I guess that makes me a Quaker.

[Leo Gura]

6 hours ago, JJfromSwitzerland said:

So why are most women not into Elon Musk

Your example proves my point.

Musk has impregnated something like 10 different women. He literally just DMs women on Twitter asking to impregnate them and they say Yes, because he is so famous.

If you are famous enough, you can just DM a random girl on social media and she will sleep with you and even have your baby.

Fame is a cheat-mode for dating.

Edited 7 hours ago by Leo Gura

[LordFall]

25 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Your example proves my point.

Musk has impregnated something like 10 different women. He literally just DMs women on Twitter asking to impregnate them and they say Yes, because he is so famous.

If you are famous enough, you can just DM a random girl on social media and she will sleep with you and even have your baby.

Fame is a cheat-mode for dating.

So true fame game is exponential game. Especially if you own the platform. I knew a club owner that would DM girls from the official club account and invite them to the owner's booth with free unlimited alcohol. His booth always had more and hotter girls than even the best promoters I knew. 

There is a lot of truth to the saying women wait at the finish line and fuck the winners. 

[Natasha Tori Maru]

10 hours ago, Basman said:

It clearly does.

No one saying it's binary.

Yeah so, just repeating "It clearly does."  isn't further advancing your point. It's just repeating the same claim with nothing else to add while ignoring the counters I raised (and support points, mind you, if you read carefully). You also don't even go into further elaborating on your point then come out that no one is arguing subjective/objective attraction being binary? So how about clearly laying out your claim? 

I even raised that "fairly" could be doing a lot of heavy lifting in your original statement - prompting maybe some more elaboration on your part regarding where you sit there?

Are you interested in trying to discern the truth here (wherever it may be, usually half way between in cases such as these) or just winning???

Edited 3 hours ago by Natasha Tori Maru

[Jirh]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The tradition of nice tits and ass?

I guess that makes me a Quaker.

Are you trolling?! 

Do I seriously need to point out how faulty this response is?

"nice" is an ambiguous term that can mean very different things for different people. It could mean petite, or extra-large, or anything in between.

But size is only one variable to "nice". Some people prefer saggy, others prefer firm. There's also color preferences. Among others.

Personally, tits and ass mean very little to me if not coupled with a beautiful face, even though they are actually more attractive to me than the face. But an ugly face turns me off immediately. What turns me off even for the entire package is a bad breath.

Needless to say that hygiene, clothing, make up and perfume change things quite dramatically. So that's another factor that adds even more complexity.

So, I'm not sure you're the same Leo that appears in the videos anymore. Your views here are very black and white. Almost like stage Blue.

Edited 2 hours ago by Jirh

[Jirh]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Your example proves my point.

Musk has impregnated something like 10 different women. He literally just DMs women on Twitter asking to impregnate them and they say Yes, because he is so famous.

If you are famous enough, you can just DM a random girl on social media and she will sleep with you and even have your baby.

Fame is a cheat-mode for dating.

That doesn't prove anything actually.

10 is a very weak number given his money and status and fame. We don't even know how many millions he DM'd and got ignored or rejected to get those low quality 10 women.

[LordFall]

3 minutes ago, Jirh said:

That doesn't prove anything actually.

10 is a very weak number given his money and status and fame. We don't even know how many millions he DM'd and got ignored or rejected to get those low quality 10 women.

What is your point exactly? That being more known doesn't help you with women? I'm not that big on Instagram and I've had women cold dm me. Fuck if my reach was 100x bigger it'd be a blast. Working on it 

It's not too late bro, start growing your personal brand; it's an evergreen asset. The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago but the 2nd best shot is 5 mins from now lets go. 

Edited 2 hours ago by LordFall

[Jirh]

2 minutes ago, LordFall said:

What is your point exactly? That being more known doesn't help you with women? I'm not that big on Instagram and I've had women cold dm me. Fuck if my reach was 100x bigger it'd be a blast. Working on it 

It's not too late bro, start growing your personal brand; it's an evergreen asset. The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago but the 2nd best shot is 5 mins from now lets go. 

I know broke people with no status who got sex from random spamming.

10 is a terrible number for someone like "Music" (yeah, I call him that).

[LordFall]

Well how many baby mamas can he handle it's not like he's looking to get 1000 of them. I'm sure he used extensive criteria to screen them he has quite a process with dedicated employees for it lol

Well of course you don't need status to get laid but it helps and makes it less effort. Anyone can get laid cold approaching with enough effort and feedback. It's a lot of effort though I don't like to do it like that all that much. Social circle and social media are much more scalable and you'll get more refinement and quality. 

[Xonas Pitfall]

I feel like the whole framing of this conversation is flawed.

The discussion is framed as men vs. women, but I think it's really about short-term vs. long-term mating strategies, like I mentioned before.

If you're looking purely at a "have sex and leave" scenario, I don't think most women care much about a man's status either. They would probably prioritize someone they find physically attractive, who seems fun, playful, hot, confident, and likely to make the experience enjoyable. It simply isn't incentive-compatible to weigh a bunch of other qualities if the interaction is only meant to be casual.

However, once we're talking about long-term relationships or choosing a life partner, both men and women care about far more than just looks. Personality, competence, values, emotional compatibility, reliability, reputation, social perception, and many other factors all become relevant. People also care about what their partner says about them socially and how others perceive the relationship.

So the only way I can really agree with the original claim is if it's reframed like this: men are, on average, more likely to engage in short-term mating, so they tend to consider fewer variables when selecting a partner in those situations. In that specific context, attraction may appear less relative simply because fewer factors are being evaluated.

But I don't agree with the claim when we're talking about long-term relationships. I've seen plenty of men who are highly conformist and heavily influenced by social status, reputation, and how their partner reflects on them. In that sense, I don't think men's mate selection is any less "relative" than women's on average.

[LordFall]

15 minutes ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

If you're looking purely at a "have sex and leave" scenario, I don't think most women care much about a man's status either. They would probably prioritize someone they find physically attractive, who seems fun, playful, hot, confident, and likely to make the experience enjoyable. It simply isn't incentive-compatible to weigh a bunch of other qualities if the interaction is only meant to be casual.

Status is one of the reasons top reasons where a woman would instinctively throw away her long term strategy for a quick result. Have you not heard of what happens backstages with musicians? So common

https://www.reddit.com/r/CheatingGF/comments/xr0a8g/looking_back_at_the_time_i_accidentally_helped/

https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/comments/1ee2k6a/my_20m_girlfriend_18f_danced_with_her_favorite/

Women and regular people are stunned by status and social media it short circuits our brains. I used to do a street interviews and I've had a blonde girl that I was originally nervous to approach be super stunned and like giggly that she was now getting interviewed and be on social media. If she was a fan of mine and her boyfriend was not there it's over for buddy.

A really hot girl I knew got flown to Romania to fuck Tristan Tate, it happens so much. I was butthurt and insulted at the time but that's the game. 

 

Edited 1 hour ago by LordFall