How did the ( Illusion ) the sense of separation start?

[Mellowmarsh]

Just now, Sugarcoat said:

I was feeling funny, truly no hostility here, because you were snarky so it inspired it in me

Okay, I’ll take snarky. No problem. Have a lovely day Sugarcoat. 🙂

[Sugarcoat]

1 minute ago, Mellowmarsh said:

Okay, I’ll take snarky. No problem. Have a lovely day Sugarcoat. 🙂

You too : D

Edited Wednesday at 04:54 AM by Sugarcoat

[Mellowmarsh]

Fiction is my confession. 📖 

[Mellowmarsh]

9 hours ago, James123 said:

Just close your eyes, and literally think these thoughts what you say above, try to see them, really deeply look at them, but not as trying or looking just be aware of them. 

Can you really be sure that what they are? Any thoughts, including word of "any thoughts".

Good point, J
While nobody is experiencing or having a thought, the content of the thought is what carries the “I”.
Believing that this thought-content has an actual existence is the illusion.
Similarly, the illusion of a separate self arises when you take ownership of a particular experience through the thought “my” or “mine.”

[Breakingthewall]

21 hours ago, Grateful Dead said:

That is not how I see it. From my perspective, God has nothing to do with the dream. God is real and eternally unchanging.

I view it this way: the dream came into existence, so to speak, through God's creation (you and I), which wanted to cut itself off from God in order to become the Source itself, and thus be separate from and independent of God. You could also say that the dream was created to escape the infinite, structureless unity of God.

I don't think that there is a god and a dream, you could say that there is absolute unlimited being and that's the source of form because the form emanates from the unlimited always, it's the unlimited manifested. The unlimited doesn't want it, it's inevitable. It's not a creation, it's the necessary emanation of the unlimited. If the unlimited "wants" it would be limited. 

21 hours ago, Grateful Dead said:

You cannot compare it to this world; yet, in comparison to this world, this world is unreal, an illusion, a fleeting dream. 

As I see this world is the reality, could be another form of reality, but there are in the same level of reality. Being human we get lost in our dense structure and we can open it, but the reality is the same, only the level of openess changes. 

21 hours ago, Grateful Dead said:

don't mind it when someone argues against me. It allows me to refine my perspective and helps me internalize it more deeply. And if there happens to be a gap or a flaw in my view, I want to know about it.

Same, that's why I talk here, not to convince people but to refine my perspective and mental structure. I do because a certain structure allows the real openess. It's not important knowing, what is important is that our mental structure is not a hindrance, and this is not easy

[Grateful Dead]

16 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

absolute unlimited being and that's the source

That's basically what I mean by God.

16 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

source of form because the form emanates from the unlimited always, it's the unlimited manifested. The unlimited doesn't want it, it's inevitable. It's not a creation, it's the necessary emanation of the unlimited.

From my perspective, form cannot truly exist, since form is always limited; it has a beginning and an end. True reality is infinitely unlimited, and therefore everything that truly exists can only be of the same nature, and thus also indefinable and boundless

16 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

I do because a certain structure allows the real openess. It's not important knowing, what is important is that our mental structure is not a hindrance, and this is not easy

Yes, that's exactly how I see it too. In my view, your thought system is extremely important for opening the mind. And that's why I don't care what kind of structure you have, as long as it's based on your own experience and works for you. That's why I'm so convinced by my system, because when I found a way to mentally structure what I experienced and learned how to work with it, it unlocked my mind in a way that even psychedelics couldn't.

I’m curious, what exactly is it about the fact that I view the world as an illusion that you perceive as an hindrance? 

I’ve already told you what I perceive as an obstacle in your perspective, namely, the danger, so to speak, of seeking the unlimited within the limited, and thereby only getting stuck even deeper in that very limitation.

[Mellowmarsh]

Only the limited is known. 

 

The “sense of self” occurs as a reflexive recursive thought that is directed back upon itself existing only in your internal world. The “sense of self” is limited and does not exist in the physical, tangible universe outside of your awareness.

So you can’t even say anything about what is unlimited or infinite or God, these concepts are simply more thoughts which are limited. 
 

The illusion starts when you learn to speak and think in a subject-object kind of way. For example: the illusion of a “separate sense of self” arises when you take ownership of a particular experience through the thought “my” or “mine” 

Theres something that knows every thought but that something cannot know anything that is not a thought, or other than thought, because this knowing knows nothing outside of it’s own mental creation, which is limited.

So what is this something aware of and knows every thought ? The answer is unknowable, because the known knows nothing.
 

 

[VeganAwake]

5 hours ago, Mellowmarsh said:

Only the limited is known. 

 

The “sense of self” occurs as a reflexive recursive thought that is directed back upon itself existing only in your internal world. The “sense of self” is limited and does not exist in the physical, tangible universe outside of your awareness.

So you can’t even say anything about what is unlimited or infinite or God, these concepts are simply more thoughts which are limited. 
 

The illusion starts when you learn to speak and think in a subject-object kind of way. For example: the illusion of a “separate sense of self” arises when you take ownership of a particular experience through the thought “my” or “mine” 

Theres something that knows every thought but that something cannot know anything that is not a thought, or other than thought, because this knowing knows nothing outside of it’s own mental creation, which is limited.

So what is this something aware of and knows every thought ? The answer is unknowable, because the known knows nothing.
 

 

Unknowing is similar to not taking a position on a topic but still being engaged.

Similar to watching the NFL without having a team. It allows a big picture focus instead of getting tunnel vision on teams and players. 

But its also not denying the role of the players and teams. 

We aren't trying to crucify or demonize this "sense of self", we are just watching it, seeing how it labels and takes ownership. Shining a light on it to see if it's actually real

[VeganAwake]

Is it more that just an identification with thinking?

Does it create a physical experience in the body and what is that experience?

[VeganAwake]

 

 

[Mellowmarsh]

3 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

Is it more that just an identification with thinking?

Does it create a physical experience in the body and what is that experience?

Thinking and knowing thought is a unitary experience within a self-aware human mind which is temporary.

Self-awareness, the sense of “I exist” arises and falls in multiple waves that seamlessly stitch together to form the sensation of continuity as an aggregate whole totality. This self-awareness is not only conscious of itself it’s conscious of everything else that can be conceptualised. 

This aggregate has no knowable start or end because the sense of self-awareness appearing within the totality is only an illusion of the senses that appears as the sense of “ I exist” .. and that which can appear can also disappear, so it is a very convincing hallucination of the brain that nature uses as a useful survival tool for the human species. 

 

[Mellowmarsh]

4 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

Is it more that just an identification with thinking?

Does it create a physical experience in the body and what is that experience?

The experience is shocking and horrible for consciousness… here’s why ⬇️

I strongly advise people to watch this video because it’s a raw truth that most humans can’t seem to stomach too well.

 

 

[Joseph Maynor]

The problem I have with this take is -- whose illusion of separation?  

Edited 13 hours ago by Joseph Maynor

[Yimpa]

1 hour ago, Joseph Maynor said:

whose illusion of separation?  

Take a plunge into the Infinite Void of Everything and you will sea.

[Mellowmarsh]

9 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

The problem I have with this take is -- whose illusion of separation?  

The problem is the ( I ) concept. No such ( I ) has ever been seen. There’s no entity called I , except in this conception, which is empty, and knows nothing of its emptiness because there’s simply no one there to be aware. 

[Mellowmarsh]

9 hours ago, Yimpa said:

Take a plunge into the Infinite Void of Everything and you will sea.

The “I” is truly only a thought. It is an illusion. A superb illusion. This “I” can be searched for but never found in the real world. This truth has been there all the time, right out in the open.
 

When sea- in happens, clarity begins. Happy deepities. 
 

Deep pitys.

Edited 3 hours ago by Mellowmarsh

[Mellowmarsh]

11 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

whose illusion of separation?  

Everything that kills me makes me feel alive.

Do whatever you love and let it kill you.