Drama Alert! Another YTber is calling us a cult! 😈☦️

[Elliott]

1 hour ago, Human Mint said:

Intellectual masturbation team vs the mystical ninjas:

They will pay once Leo accesses alien telekinesis, no quarter given

 

Praise be to DMT

Edited yesterday at 07:17 PM by Elliott

[UnbornTao]

18 hours ago, zurew said:

You don't know what you are talking about. You are self-deceived, and you have yet to become conscious of what I have become conscious of (but only with my permission --- there is no fucking way that you can surpass me or get to my level. Immediately forget that arrogant BS).

Its not about trips; its about my permission. I will inform you when you manage to get there (if you behave correctly, and by that I just mean you acknowledge that Im more awake here than everyone in the universe).

I wonder what makes people not ask such basic questions as 'where's the video?' How come they take another's word for it and somehow miss simple stuff? It's a bit strange, and insidious. And this is just a very blatant case. I'm sure there are much more subtle cases where this occurs.

I also suspect that, as we speak, there are many people on the sidelines who think that this dynamic doesn't apply to them - that they have somehow transcended it.

[Elliott]

8 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

I wonder what makes people not ask such basic questions as 'where's the video?' How come they take another's word for it and somehow miss simple stuff? It's a bit strange, and insidious. And this is just a very blatant case. I'm sure there are much more subtle cases where this occurs.

I also suspect that, as we speak, there are many people on the sidelines who think that this dynamic doesn't apply to them - that they have somehow transcended it.

Do you think people believe that Leo can turn into an alien or alien mouse?

 

......they don't 

[Human Mint]

17 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

We all like to think that.

I mean, I like to pay attention to the teachings. I am curious to see in what ways I am "the devil". I do think at the end of the day is personal preference.

Wheter I can understand absolutely everything is beyond my control.

[zurew]

4 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

I wonder what makes people not ask such basic questions as 'where's the video?' How come they take another's word for it and somehow miss simple stuff? It's a bit strange, and insidious. And this is just a very blatant case. I'm sure there are much more subtle cases where this occurs.

I also suspect that, as we speak, there are many people on the sidelines who think that this dynamic doesn't apply to them - that they have somehow transcended it.

Yeah, and given how some people reacted to your question in that thread, that was also interesting.

Leo backed himself into a corner by creating a standard by which he can be held accountable (specifically related to that point), and it's clear that he doesn't give the slightest fuck about it and will imply that you're wrong for even attempting to hold him to his own words.

Hours and hours of ramblings about epistemology, integrity, maturity, self-deception, epistemic responsibility, and how scientists fall into the trap of infinitely delaying paradigm change—and then, when shit hits the fan, he can't embody or live by anything that he preaches about. 

" I'm Leo. I made some claims in the past, and I created a standard for myself. Now, should I acknowledge that I was wrong, or at the very least lower my credence in the belief that I can undergo such a transformation after years of failure? Naaah, let me choose the other option,where I label UnbornTao closed-minded for holding me to my own words, and then call it a day (like a mature, epistemically responsible, non-manipulative, 'truth is my highest virtue and value' guy). "

Some people here did not pick up on the significance of Leo's reaction to your question. His reaction shows that he doesn't have the spine or the integrity to acknowledge failure and be responsible for his own standards and his own word (especially when it comes to things he cares about -  like maintaining a special identity).

His reaction to your question simultaneously targets and undermines his epistemology, integrity, and his alleged deep care about what's true.

 

Edited 8 hours ago by zurew

[Human Mint]

@zurew But he says again and again that he's also subject to selfishness. That's how serious it is.

You can't be God-like as long as you're surviving.

The thing about "feeling special" and all of that is just more trying to survive.

It is just a matter of perspective at the end. Saying "you're close-minded" is not an insult per se.

 

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, Human Mint said:

@zurew But he says again and again that he's also subject to selfishness. That's how serious it is.

*Donald Trump voice* "Nobody knows more about epistemology than I do, yes it's true, it's really true. And if I'm wrong, one time I said I can be wrong, so that means I'm right".

Unironically what we're dealing with.

[Elliott]

I don't think trump himself is what makes his situation a cult. I mark that episode up to people like Rush Limbaugh, or even further - Rush's funders like big oil. Rush spent decades brainwashing everyone in the bible belt. Trumps narcissism allegations mostly stem from his documented behavior rather than his language, he's harmed everyone he's associated with with zero remorse or behavior correction. Trump only picked up the Limbaugh torch and followed that to a 'T', which was already built over 40 years.

 

I found a real cult, I went here, NO ZEBRAS! Complete narcissitic puffery.

 

 

Is Leo harming anyone or leading them to destructive paths, I'd say clearly no. He influences people and likes people to admire him, he uses puffery and is seemingly a bit overconfident, he's sometimes abusive. All of these things are healthy to point out by the way, I'm not trying to dismiss them. He's not any worse than almost anyone else teaching anything.

 

Although I think Leo is dogmatic about God and psychedelics, I think he's quite open minded and would change his teachings if he learned something that made more sense, this is a bit unique of Leo in this field, everyone else is dogmaticaly dug in to their concepts as their identity, Leo's changes every year to what he'sfound to be the best, if he thought something was better thats what i think hr would teach. I don't subscribe to God or psychedelics but I like it here because anyone can bring up any new concept.

Edited 2 hours ago by Elliott

[Joshe]

2 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

*Donald Trump voice* "Nobody knows more about epistemology than I do, yes it's true, it's really true. And if I'm wrong, one time I said I can be wrong, so that means I'm right".

lol, that was great. 100% something Donald would say. 

[Human Mint]

3 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

*Donald Trump voice* "Nobody knows more about epistemology than I do, yes it's true, it's really true. And if I'm wrong, one time I said I can be wrong, so that means I'm right".

Unironically what we're dealing with.

Nah, Trump would have lied. "I am never wrong, I am the most righteous person".

He who warns does not betray.

[UnbornTao]

3 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

*Donald Trump voice* "Nobody knows more about epistemology than I do, yes it's true, it's really true. And if I'm wrong, one time I said I can be wrong, so that means I'm right".

Unironically what we're dealing with.

Shut up and do psychedelics.

 

Edited 2 hours ago by UnbornTao

[Osaid]

The only reason we haven't seen him transform on camera yet is simply because we're too closedminded, guys. We just gotta chill and like trust him harder, or something.

[Osaid]

3 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

*Donald Trump voice* "Nobody knows more about epistemology than I do, yes it's true, it's really true. And if I'm wrong, one time I said I can be wrong, so that means I'm right".

Unironically what we're dealing with.

Yeah, maybe I am being selfish, but I called the fact that I was gonna be selfish and wrong. So that means I was actually right all along! Muahahaha.

This is a 1000 IQ move. You need to read his upcoming book The Art of the Leo to understand it.

[Elliott]

29 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

 

 

He's just teaching dogma there. I've never even had interest in psychedelics either. He can't know that.

[Joshe]

2 hours ago, Elliott said:

Is Leo harming anyone or leading them to destructive paths, I'd say clearly no. He influences people and likes people to admire him, he uses puffery and is seemingly a bit overconfident, he's sometimes abusive. All of these things are healthy to point out by the way, I'm not trying to dismiss them. He's not any worse than almost anyone else teaching anything.

 

Although I think Leo is dogmatic about God and psychedelics, I think he's quite open minded and would change his teachings if he learned something that made more sense, this is a bit unique of Leo in this field, everyone else is dogmaticaly dug in to their concepts as their identity, Leo's changes every year. I don't subscribe to God or psychedelics but I like it here because anyone can bring up any new concept.

Crank these up:

"likes people to admire him" -> "Needs people to admire him"

"overconfident" -> "claims to be the best in the world"

"sometimes abusive" -> "nearly always abusive in contexts where someone disagrees with him about something he cares about"

You could argue the first one but those last two are demonstrable, and real problems. 

Regarding the cult accusation, I'm not sure where I land on that. I do think there's a selection effect that happens where if a user validates or positively engages with Leo's pet ideas, they get his approval. But if they're critical of them, which is necessary to evaluate them, then they're almost always denigrated. The only way to be in the good graces is to be servile. That selection effect is mostly what contributes to the cult vibe IMO.

[Elliott]

 

Quote

"sometimes abusive" -> "nearly always abusive in contexts where someone disagrees with him about something he cares about"

They're usually very ignorant in my opinion, closed-minded. He is usually too short, i personally attribute that to him spending so much time on here and what i would expect of general frustration with the people here - and in society in general.

Quote

"overconfident" -> "claims to be the best in the world"

If he thought something else was more accurate he would just adopt that as his own philosophy, therefore he obviously believes what he's using is the best, and it is different than other people's, he's not using a copy or recycled version of someone else's. 

Quote

You could argue the first one but those last two are demonstrable, and real problems. 

Regarding the cult accusation, I'm not sure where I land on that. I do think there's a selection effect that happens where if a user validates or positively engages with Leo's pet ideas, they get his approval. But if they're critical of them, which is necessary to evaluate them, then they're almost always denigrated. The only way to be in the good graces is to be servile. That selection effect is mostly what contributes to the cult vibe IMO.

 

Don't post short one paragraph denials to Leo's 2 hour long videos, post a thought out and thorough analysis to a new thread, and then don't engage with Leo if he's being abusive; do you believe this is disallowed here? Make a video response with the effort Leo puts into his, post it here.

He's human, doing something very difficult and novel. You want him to be a god, some people pleaser is not going to forge into novel territory, he would stay in comfort like a Rupert Spira. Novelty comes with discomfort, from many directions, someone engaged in this is usually not going to be exceptionally pleasant, if he cared about being pleasant he would focus more on that than his novelty.

Edited 1 hour ago by Elliott

[Elliott]