Benthino Massaro being exposed

[Natasha Tori Maru]

Awakening, enlightenment. Higher consciousness... whatever term you prefer. Time and time again it has been shown these do not exclude one from the effects of genetics and incentive structures.

[Olaf]

@Wilhelm44 yes and also if your at 18 already being put on a pedestal, your brain isn't fully developed yet till the age of 25, how mature can a teacher be at 18? Not to forget that there is a good possibility that he hasn't matured much since then as basically everything was handed to him at such a young age, followers, fame, money. He didn't needed to mature, because he never had to work for anything. Just like a kid doesn't have to mature, because their parents hand them everything they need. 

[Olaf]

@Natasha Tori Maru so how do you think we should structure these teachings when they could easily be misused to get power and status and much more in the world? I think the next generation of teachers should have some form of human side to them, that makes them not be put on a pedestal like the gurus get done. I am intrested and open to hear what others think. 

[Mellowmarsh]

6 minutes ago, Olaf said:

telling people it was for their higher good or

 Anyone assuming they know what’s good or better for someone else is obscene arrogance. 
 

 

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@Olaf gosh, it's a hard question - not making it easy for me, ay 🥲

Raising awareness, inspecting belief. Investigating bias. Investigating the self through enquiry. The problem is, these methods are all available and being used.

The ego is the trickiest thing. The ultimate bias. 

The realisation of oneness and unity gets lost to the appetites of desire and aversion....

Edited 8 hours ago by Natasha Tori Maru

[Olaf]

@Natasha Tori Maru I think all of these are good, but then also there is the danger, like imagine you say "I am awareness" at some point these people really start to belief they are God, even tho your connected to God, doesn't mean now you can float or do and have powers that God have hehe. Like we can't even make the sun go up or down when we want, how much of God are we really? I am thinking about how to make it less into this idea of your either "awakened and one with God" or your just "human ego" what for me feels too harsh of a distinction, I think that we shouldn't walk around all day long, forgetting that we also have a human ego and only believing we are God, awareness, what could lead to disasterous things as we have seen with these guru's.

[Olaf]

@Mellowmarsh especially when you are shouting at them about it. You should watch some of his clips where is he literally shouting at anoter student on stage in the name of "reflection and love". Hmmm sure buddy. 

[Natasha Tori Maru]

11 minutes ago, Olaf said:

@Natasha Tori Maru I think all of these are good, but then also there is the danger, like imagine you say "I am awareness" at some point these people really start to belief they are God, even tho your connected to God, doesn't mean now you can float or do and have powers that God have hehe. Like we can't even make the sun go up or down when we want, how much of God are we really? I am thinking about how to make it less into this idea of your either "awakened and one with God" or your just "human ego" what for me feels too harsh of a distinction, I think that we shouldn't walk around all day long, forgetting that we also have a human ego and only believing we are God, awareness, what could lead to disasterous things as we have seen with these guru's.

Yes exactly - which is why there are dangers. You speak of the 'Spiritual ego' where we think we have discarded the ego, only for it to have clung to spirituality in a new, more refined form. The ego hides behind the story we tell that the ego is transcended. You stop looking for your own bias because the sneaky ego tells you it has already been found. In reality it just found a new, better hiding place 😭

This is why you are always on the path. In the end, even spirituality must be discarded else we get stuck on that ground. All grounds need to be discarded as they form ever more contractions for the ego to identify with, just as quickly as you dissolve them, they form up again. This is why it is hubris to think we can transend geneticd or incentive structures. The ego feeds us a story we have overcome these basic needs. Groundless is the aim.

Nonstop process. Never-ending process. Forever process. Just as life is a process to be engaged in. It is not a problem to be solved. Merely a process to engage in. Oroborus. 

Edited 7 hours ago by Natasha Tori Maru

[Olaf]

@Natasha Tori Maru yes and because its an ongoing process the teacher can never have fully arrived as we see in these videos of guru's being portrayed as if they have reached the end "enlightenment". But if they would lose all their money and followers, they would be begging on the floor next to the supermarket, because even tho they are God, they couldn't make money unless it was from their followers in the first place. What sounds more like a human issue then a God issue. So they must act this role of being holier then thou so they don't have to find another way to make a living. I think what your getting to is much more transparancy about it being a process, what actually is an intresting take. I would be curious how such a teaching would look like in practice. And it would be almost more like a christian thing where you are praying to God instead of creating the idea that you are God and therefor you never have to deal with these human things as you are "above" that. Or as Mooiji once answered to someone asking if he could do certain aura readings or energy stuff? He would answer "that is childsplay" again making you feel like its even stupid to ask a question, giving you the fault instead of being accountable and saying that you can't do that. 

[Mellowmarsh]

44 minutes ago, Olaf said:

@Mellowmarsh especially when you are shouting at them about it. You should watch some of his clips where is he literally shouting at anoter student on stage in the name of "reflection and love". Hmmm sure buddy. 

We’re all just messengers.

When a message is heard and that message is fully understood,  it’s only because the listener has already been there first.

 

I am the first and last idiot so to speak… ⬅️ not to be taken literally. 

[Miguel1]

I rather we have higher moral development and no awakenings, than awakening and no moral development.

This is why we should take care of our basics first and develop one step at a time. And also why we should not delve into psychedelic work too soon, as it would be a boost in our consciousness into deep awakenings, yet our psyche is not developed enough to handle and integrate them, possibly leading to backfire and our development dropping.

I got into spirituality when I was a teen, and I went balls deep into it at that age, when I should have been out playing and socializing. The results? The biggest zen devil who was using every possibly spirituap rationalization to boost my pick up journey.

”Suffering is the best teacher, so I can hurt girls because it will boost them into spiritual work.”

”Taking advantage of girls is good, because it will teach them a lesson on attachment and push them to drop their ego”

It was fucking endless devilry dressed in good.

[Lyubov]

What’s even the point of being a guru if you aren’t a sexpest or desire some sort of validation from others? Whether it be money or a hoard of people to extract wealth from? It’s largely a role for personal gain. I’m talking about gurus, where you create a hierarchy and bring in followers. Do not confuse this with teachers and masters who dismantle their hierarchy and leave a lot of empty space between them and how they move through the world. Have you guys even dealt with students and clients before who come to you to learn? They are annoying. The only reason to even keep these people around you is if you want something from them. It’s largely only pervs who try to get close to their students and set themselves up as a guru so they can extract sex, money and network for themselves. Not too different from the church but dressed up in eastern spirituality. 

Notice how Benito isn’t fucking fat women and men from his Satsang to heal them. I imagine you need to pay quite a bit of dollars to spend time with him if you aren’t a beautiful woman. 

Edited 1 hour ago by Lyubov

[Lyubov]

I also don’t feel so bad for this woman. She wasn’t drugged and she wasn’t forced with threats and violence. These guru chasers will happily hop on the dick of a guy in a powerful position because that’s what attracts them. She was manipulated but that is a far cry from rape. She clearly was aroused and attracted and consented to this sex. This is classic lack of responsibility on the woman’s behalf for choosing to engage in sex without integrity. Women need to take more responsibility for who they give sex to (they won’t). 

Edited 1 hour ago by Lyubov