Number 1 mistake all woman make in their first relationship.

[integral]

By far the pattern I've seen a million times, is that a woman in her first relationship will always self-destruct.

Here's an example: she's scared of something, the boyfriend doesn't think it's that big deal and isn't stressed about it. She will interpret that as he is being irresponsible about the topic because he is not scared about the thing that she is scared about. She will then project this into the future and keep this in the back of her mind and she will now internalize you as a irresponsible person because you are too chill.

A woman will interpret your relaxation as a irresponsibility because you don't share the emotions with her.

She then keeps this in her mind and her perception of you is now permanently changed leading her down the path of further self-destruction.

This is why Owen talks about non-stop frame control because he's stuck in these immature relationships. And doesn't know how to have or select healthy relationships.

Edited 15 hours ago by integral

[Eskilon]

Yes, did experience this

We spiritual bros are too chill and some will interpret that as if you don't care or irresponsible.

[Osaid]

Objectively it might not be a big deal. It might even be silly. But she probably just wants you to acknowledge how she feels instead of brushing it off. 

Imagine a child crying about something. Santa didn't get them their presents or something. You would still probe and explore those feelings with them. Santa might not be real, but the feeling is.

Anyways, end of the day it's not really a gender thing since everyone feels.

[Osaid]

As for being stuck in immature relationships, yeah, much of the "manosphere" is. Because they believe in the manosphere. Self-fulfilling prophecy. Then you just conflate the experience with "all women" to repeat the prophecy.

[integral]

2 hours ago, Osaid said:

Objectively it might not be a big deal. It might even be silly. But she probably just wants you to acknowledge how she feels instead of brushing it off. 

Imagine a child crying about something. Santa didn't get them their presents or something. You would still probe and explore those feelings with them. Santa might not be real, but the feeling is.

Anyways, end of the day it's not really a gender thing since everyone feels.

There is no substitute for a good communication, I'm talking about is after good communication she simply cannot accept that you are relaxed or have a perspective that is not emotionally aligned with hers.

• She needs you to have the same emotion she has (or pretend to), and agree with her emotions and validate her emotions. 
• You know the saying "Making a big deal out of nothing".

The crime that she commits is that when you don't validate her emotions, she then views you as a irresponsible, and then this is projected throughout everything that you are as a person throughout every decision you've ever made in the future. A remodelling of who she thinks you are happens.

Quote

 

I think you're going overboard into a liberal fantasy. I've been criticized many times on the forum for projecting things onto women.. it's true they're similarities between men and women, but women live in a whole other universe called the psychosis fantasies of feelings. 

I do not need my feelings validated, I do not need someone to hear how i feel, I do not need to be reassured in any way emotionally about anything, I am self assured, I am self fulfilled.

Actually talking to someone about how I feel is placing the responsibility of my feelings onto someone else and now if they don't deliver, I'm gonna dislike them. It's a fools game. 

Edited 12 hours ago by integral

[Osaid]

53 minutes ago, integral said:

There is no substitute for a good communication, I'm talking about is after good communication she simply cannot accept that you are relaxed or have a perspective that is not emotionally aligned with hers.

• She needs you to have the same emotion she has (or pretend to), and agree with her emotions and validate her emotions. 
• You know the saying "Making a big deal out of nothing".

The crime that she commits is that when you don't validate her emotions, she then views you as a irresponsible, and then this is projected throughout everything that you are as a person throughout every decision you've ever made in the future. A remodelling of who she thinks you are happens.

I see.

I think that would ruin any relation though. If a man did it. If a woman did it. etc.

54 minutes ago, integral said:

I think you're going overboard into a liberal fantasy. I've been criticized many times on the forum for projecting things onto women.. it's true they're similarities between men and women, but women live in a whole other universe called the psychosis fantasies of feelings. 

Women can express their emotions in unique ways, but at the end of the day it's the same emotion or the same capacity to feel as anyone else.

For example, say a woman and a man feel sad.

The woman cries about it in front of her friends.

The guy doesn't do this, and he bottles the desire to cry, simply because there's a stigma that he shouldn't do that around other men.

Both are sad. Neither have transcended sadness. The sadness is not caused by their genitalia. Nothing like that. One simply decides to feel it, and the other tries not to feel it because of what they are taught. The existence of it, the sadness, is still there. 

Same emotion. Same feeling. Only expressed or filtered differently because of culture, expectations, peers, gender, etc.

My practical reason for emphasizing all of this is because I think it would actually be much more helpful to focus on the human condition as a whole rather than narrowing it down to a specific gender. That's much more relatable for everyone and it doesn't require much assumption or pseudoscience.

1 hour ago, integral said:

Actually talking to someone about how I feel is placing the responsibility of my feelings onto someone else and now if they don't deliver, I'm gonna dislike them. It's a fools game.

Not necessarily. It doesn't have to push responsibility. It's arguably an important thing to communicate.

But, to your point, it's also important not to place unnecessary responsibility onto others. I think someone could communicate emotions without actually expecting you to be responsible for it, though. You just seem sensitive to it because it seems other people have done that to you a lot.

[integral]

@Osaid Why are you saying men and woman are equal? 

[Osaid]

6 minutes ago, integral said:

@Osaid Why are you saying men and woman are equal? 

Where'd I say that?

[integral]

Just now, Osaid said:

Where'd I say that?

Well what are the differences? lol if not emotional? 

[aurum]

You could be dating someone who is excessively neurotic.

But also, these sort of responses from women are often like warning bells. She doesn't feel safe / secure / containment in the relationship. She's not in her feminine.

The issue is almost never just about the specific issue itself. It's about your general orientation.

Are you handling survival effectively? Are you genuinely taking responsibility, or are you avoiding?

Ignore these warning bells at your own peril. 

 

 

[Osaid]

2 minutes ago, integral said:

Well what are the differences? lol if not emotional? 

Biological. The body, basically.

The culture, behaviour, gender, and everything else attributed, would stem from the initial biological distinction.

Trying to explain emotion through body parts just doesn't work IMO. 

[integral]

5 minutes ago, Osaid said:

Biological. The body, basically.

The culture, behaviour, gender, and everything else attributed, would stem from the initial biological distinction.

Trying to explain emotion through body parts just doesn't work IMO. 

I think their brains developed differently because of the difference in biology, they have different hormones/dna and many factors.

Like periods... make them more emotional, thats just 1 event.

The way they socialize is more wired for emotional communication (but your saying its cultural) 

Edited 9 hours ago by integral

[Osaid]

Just now, integral said:

I think their brains developed differently because of the difference in biology, they have different hormones/dna and many factors.

A woman is not a mans brain in a woman body basically. Its more then that. Woman have woman brains.

Well, if what's wanted is a connection and a relationship, then you gotta find some way to relate to them, despite being a guy. Then they'll probably feel happy or satisfied or whatever. Maybe I'm crazy.

[bazera]

7 hours ago, integral said:

A woman will interpret your relaxation as a irresponsibility because you don't share the emotions with her.

Oh yeah, been there.

She also had this tendency that she needed to care about me in an emotional way, and I'm generally used to care about myself and be self-sufficient as much as I can, even with my emotional life, because, hell, in the end it's just me, girls (or anyone who can support you for that matter) come and go and you can't be depended on anyone ultimately in that matter, and since my aim is towards developing that capacity more and more, it interferes with intimate relationships because girls expect more openness and sharing, and if you don't do it, they think something is wrong with you (at least the ones I've dealth with)

But part of connecting with someone on that intimate level is emotional connection, so maybe the uncomfortable thing for me is the correct thing to do to succed in this.  

[integral]

@Osaid @bazera

2 hours ago, Osaid said:

Well, if what's wanted is a connection and a relationship, then you gotta find some way to relate to them, despite being a guy. Then they'll probably feel happy or satisfied or whatever. Maybe I'm crazy.

 

Emotionally supporting your partner is very important and healthy to do but what I was talking about is when they misinterpreting your natural self. You can't always be on high alert, mirroring their emotions and comforting them. This is not healthy. And they will easily misinterpret your healthiness. And they will project unhealthy traits on to you like that you're irresponsible and not let these things go. 

And I'm saying this is common in first relationships where the woman will self-destruct by blaming you for everything 

18 minutes ago, bazera said:

But part of connecting with someone on that intimate level is emotional connection, so maybe the uncomfortable thing for me is the correct thing to do to succed in this.  

Intimacy isn't about these Grand emotional romances, that's movie stuff and Fantasies women are telling guys to to do. Having a good moment with someone is intimacy, laughing together casually throughout the day. Cuddling, quality time, enjoying being a part of each other's lives is all intimacy and then you could go deeper into the intimacy when you really get to know someone and you feel like you have a really good connection with them. The more Synergy you have with someone the more intimate everything tends to become. Of course listening to their deepest issues and traumas and connecting with them in this way is all very important and part of intimacy. 

But if you're a stable healthy person then in general you're not going to be sharing your biggest traumas and expecting emotional support for it.  it's just not something that's inside you, and not something that you need in a relationship. And that's perfectly healthy

Edited 7 hours ago by integral

[bazera]

19 minutes ago, integral said:

Intimacy isn't about these Grand emotional romances, that's movie stuff and Fantasies women are telling guys to to do. Having a good moment with someone is intimacy, laughing together casually throughout the day. Cuddling, quality time, enjoying being a part of each other's lives is all intimacy and then you could go deeper into the intimacy when you really get to know someone and you feel like you have a really good connection with them. The more Synergy you have with someone the more intimate everything tends to become. Of course listening to their deepest issues and traumas and connecting with them in this way is all very important and part of intimacy. 

Yes I agree, that's what makes relationship juicy, that's the whole point of a relationship, to do that, and to enjoy doint it. 

19 minutes ago, integral said:

you could go deeper into the intimacy when you really get to know someone and you feel like you have a really good connection with them.

Yes, on many levels, including emotional, physical, intellectual, or even experiential, creating the shared meaning can also deepen intimacy. 

19 minutes ago, integral said:

But if you're a stable healthy person then in general you're not going to be sharing your biggest traumas and expecting emotional support for it.  it's just not something that's inside you, and not something that you need in a relationship. And that's perfectly healthy

But sometimes that comes of as avoidance, which is percieved as unhealthy from a woman's perspective, but for you it may not be avoidance but a genuine state. For some women it's important that you show your weak spots and vulnerabilities so that they can express their love and caring to support you, they have a need for that and if you don't create opportunities for them to do that, they think something is wrong. But if you're used to fix everything yourself or be okay with some stuff unresolved for some time, that can become a bit annoying as well.

Personally, I tend to keep some stuff to myself, not because I avoid vulnerability, it's just that it doesn't even occur to me that I can share some stuff, I don't see a reason to. 

Edited 7 hours ago by bazera

[Osaid]

57 minutes ago, integral said:

Emotionally supporting your partner is very important and healthy to do but what I was talking about is when they misinterpreting your natural self. You can't always be on high alert, mirroring their emotions and comforting them. This is not healthy. And they will easily misinterpret your healthiness. And they will project unhealthy traits on to you like that you're irresponsible and not let these things go. 

And I'm saying this is common in first relationships where the woman will self-destruct by blaming you for everything 

Yeah totally. Compromising yourself for another doesn't really work out. Blaming others doesn't really work out either. None of that would actually be aligned or supportive emotionally. Authenticity and inauthenticity can't co-exist, it will lead to contradiction in the relationship.

You don't have to confirm what they believe or even copy their emotion though. Like if a parent was comforting the child, the parent doesn't believe in Santa but the parent can still talk them through it. When the parent shows confidence and kindness in contrast to the fear and insecurity, the child naturally gravitates towards the emotional state of the parent. You can embody your truth while acknowledging the emotion she feels.

Anyways, blame is indeed self-destructive. I'm not saying to settle for that. You shouldn't be with someone who's always angry at you lol.
 

[ExploringReality]

Be careful with narcissistic women and women with borderline personality disorders. That's a whole can of worms.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

35 minutes ago, ExploringReality said:

Be careful with narcissistic people and people with borderline personality disorders. That's a whole can of worms.

 

[ExploringReality]

5 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

 

Good catch. Definitely not limited to women, that was an error on my part. I was wrong