What is best pickup model ?

[AION]

@Ramanujan just go with Owen. He is a safe bet. I saw his infield and it is very natural and authentic making a real connection while Todd comes off as he is running a script and just pushing buttons. 

[Cred]

dating is only a rocketscience if you are trying to make neurotypical girls be into you

Edited Wednesday at 04:47 PM by Cred

[Ulax]

I was expecting to eye roll at the post's content but those were some interesting insights.

[Raze]

14 hours ago, Jannes said:

In the beginning he literally describes how he tries to do more and more outragous manipulation and describes himself as some kind of stuntmen, completly full of himself. That was the first bad taste I got from it. 

And then a core of his teaching is that you should give the girl the feeling that this is something special and that there is romantic potential, even if you just want to bang. This puts me off. 

And its also way to complicated, way to much strategy which is counterproductive if you want to let loose. 

I like his levels of physical escalation. But beyond that there is little I found useful. 

Yes he is narcissistic and got stuck in his ways.

When did he say that? In the book he mentions it’s wrong to sleep with a woman under the pretense you committed then to  discard her.

You need to keep in mind he was coming up in a time where most guys didn’t even think you could get better with women or thought you just get women by having a job and buying them stuff. There were no YouTube videos with full infield. 

In that context it’s insane how many many insights he had.

- smiling, eye contact, and talking louder on the open, 99% of guys fail to do this but it increases open dramatically

- how to approach groups

- negs, body rocking, these are nuanced topics so most guys do it wrong but when done correctly allowed average guys to open girls who normally are dating models and rockstars and would automatically reject everyone 

- false time constraints, simple way to dramatically increase opening success

- preselection and other attraction switches to directly create interest, keep in mind before mystery most people had no idea this was even possible, also examples of creating preselection like merging sets and pivots 

- concept of attraction before comfort, remember most guys and most advice was all about comfort first and got guys friend zoned or worse when the girl had no interest in connecting because she wasn’t interested 

- qualification, one of his former students Sin said prior to learning this he slept with 8 girls in his life, after implementing this he slept with 8 in a month 

- moving locations creates the illusion of more time spent together creating rapid comfort

- frame control as a concept at all

Keep in mind before mystery there was little effective advice, most guys good with women didn’t know what they were doing right and didn’t care to tell others, he was the first resource that broke down everything and turned it into a system that can be logically understood. 

And yes, the complexity is the issue because most guys lack the baseline skill and experience to understand and apply it. 

Ironically though he democratized game advice to guys in a way he showed the dangers of presenting too high level concepts to people at a time when most weren’t ready or the tools of transmission weren’t adequate.

Edited yesterday at 01:45 AM by Raze

[Ulax]

On 22/04/2026 at 5:18 PM, Ramanujan said:

i am a dating noob. i dont have abiliity to judge it . what is your view on system by todd v

i love the system by Todd.

Its helping me actually understand what is happening in an interaction with a girl, and what I'm supposed to be doing. And there isn't so much BS in there. For example, he talks about working on looks, fashion etc which various pickup guys are dismissive of. There isn't the same woo woo crap either. Todd is very big on the idea that game is just a skillset.

Some limitations: A limitation is that it is very technical, so it could put you in your head more. And it doesn't cover that much regarding conversational skills which i find to be a limitation. 

That said, pickup is not an area I'm great at, so please don't take my views on it as truth.

[Ulax]

On 22/04/2026 at 3:38 AM, Raze said:

I found multiple better models, they are largely forgotten and lesser known.

Can you share some examples please

[Miguel1]

Mystery method be like playing fucking chess and analyzing every move. That shit will get you in your head faster than a girl can get creeped out by you 

[Basman]

Ford Ranger

Edited 15 hours ago by Basman

[Raze]

8 hours ago, Ulax said:

Can you share some examples please

https://www.girlschase.com/article/attraction-models-can-you-combine-vac-sac

 

https://s3.amazonaws.com/Misc-USA/SYSTEM+SOCIAL+CHARM-Aura2016.pdf

[Zenterus]

The best Game method is the one you create after years of trying out different models.

Game, at its core, is about conveying a high value personality, which is a very personal thing depending in the guy.

A good looking chad can approach super direct and get immediate results, while a conventionally physically unattractive man will have to to approach in a more indirect yet engaging fashion that buys him enough time to convey other attractive traits that might not be immediately apparent to the girl.

Some guys are very social media savvy, while others arent. Some guys have a stronger personality, while others dont. Some are just horn dogs that want to fuck anything moving, while others are more selective.

Who you are and your goals in dating will greatly define how you approach game.

I've learned from everyone: Mystery, Todd V, RSD Max, RSD Julien, Madison, Jeffy, Karisma King, Ag Hayden, even fucking JMULV. I've tried out their philosophies, saw what worked for me and discarded the rest and kept doing that until I developed a holistic method that fits me.

Learned a shit ton from 'natural' friends as well.

My system is as followed:

High Value Open

Tease/Flirt 

Build Emotional Investment and Compliance

Close 

 

Simple. Of course, I've been in this for 10 years, so I could write 10s of pages expanding on the above bullet points. 

 

[Zenterus]

Also, do keep in mind that game varies a lot not only from person to person but also from culture to culture. 

A lot of typical pickup advice, doesn't work as well in Europe where I'm at.

In Europe, being NORMAL is the way to go and a lot of push pulls and DHVs dont get you far. We have a more comfort-centric society here, while in America (and other countries) there's more emphasis on conveying value.

[Jannes]

On 23.4.2026 at 3:29 AM, Raze said:

Yes he is narcissistic and got stuck in his ways.

Thanks

On 23.4.2026 at 3:29 AM, Raze said:

When did he say that? In the book he mentions it’s wrong to sleep with a woman under the pretense you committed then to  discard her.

I remember that he repeated that the strategy in many of his actions was to give the women the feeling that this is something special and that there is potential for something romantic. And its a book about getting laid a lot, not on how to develop a relationship. I cant remember that he said what you are saying. Its been a while since I read the book though, maybe you are right. 

On 23.4.2026 at 3:29 AM, Raze said:

You need to keep in mind he was coming up in a time where most guys didn’t even think you could get better with women or thought you just get women by having a job and buying them stuff. There were no YouTube videos with full infield. 

In that context it’s insane how many many insights he had.

- smiling, eye contact, and talking louder on the open, 99% of guys fail to do this but it increases open dramatically

- how to approach groups

- negs, body rocking, these are nuanced topics so most guys do it wrong but when done correctly allowed average guys to open girls who normally are dating models and rockstars and would automatically reject everyone 

- false time constraints, simple way to dramatically increase opening success

- preselection and other attraction switches to directly create interest, keep in mind before mystery most people had no idea this was even possible, also examples of creating preselection like merging sets and pivots 

- concept of attraction before comfort, remember most guys and most advice was all about comfort first and got guys friend zoned or worse when the girl had no interest in connecting because she wasn’t interested 

- qualification, one of his former students Sin said prior to learning this he slept with 8 girls in his life, after implementing this he slept with 8 in a month 

- moving locations creates the illusion of more time spent together creating rapid comfort

- frame control as a concept at all

Keep in mind before mystery there was little effective advice, most guys good with women didn’t know what they were doing right and didn’t care to tell others, he was the first resource that broke down everything and turned it into a system that can be logically understood. 

And yes, the complexity is the issue because most guys lack the baseline skill and experience to understand and apply it. 

Ironically though he democratized game advice to guys in a way he showed the dangers of presenting too high level concepts to people at a time when most weren’t ready or the tools of transmission weren’t adequate.

Okay then its very impressive what he came up with for the time. But then it should be more seen as a good project of its time which is outdated nowadays. I also doubt how many things in the book work if you dont have the looks of Mysterie. 

[Raze]

42 minutes ago, Jannes said:

Okay then its very impressive what he came up with for the time. But then it should be more seen as a good project of its time which is outdated nowadays. I also doubt how many things in the book work if you dont have the looks of Mysterie. 

He actually relied less on his looks since his focus was on going indirect and avoiding rejection, not high volume and going direct 

[Ramanujan]

On 4/22/2026 at 10:17 PM, Cred said:

dating is only a rocketscience if you are trying to make neurotypical girls be into you

system by todd v is rocket science

[Ramanujan]

@Zenterus based

[Ramanujan]

@Zenterus what do you think of the book rational male red pill guide to game by rollo tomassi

[Zenterus]

4 minutes ago, Ramanujan said:

@Zenterus what do you think of the book rational male red pill guide to game by rollo tomassi

Started reading it and got bored not even a quarter into it so I dropped it.

All that shit is useless information. Rollo Tomasi himself wasnt some grand player and I guarantee my body count is way higher than his, so I don't know why people hold him so credible.

Is some of the red pill stuff true? Sure. But most of it is bullshit, and poisoning your mind with all the BS so you can get a few nuggets of gold is foolish.

All I care about is what works down in the field. Fuck all the theories and speculation. What. Actually. Works.

If I can't apply it to the field and get positive results, then its irrelevant to me and a lot of the red pill ideology is just that: Ideology.

[Jannes]

24 minutes ago, Raze said:

He actually relied less on his looks since his focus was on going indirect and avoiding rejection, not high volume and going direct 

Either way looks matter a lot

[Raze]

7 minutes ago, Jannes said:

Either way looks matter a lot

Looks matter only insofar as they fulfill the emotional state needed to progress things forward, you still need to progress it, and there are other ways to fulfill said states

[Ramanujan]

10 minutes ago, Zenterus said:

Started reading it and got bored not even a quarter into it so I dropped it

holy shit. the book like crack for me . becuase i am a dating noob ig

10 minutes ago, Zenterus said:

Rollo Tomasi himself wasnt some grand player and I guarantee my body count is way higher than his,

his body count is 38. after that he got married

 

11 minutes ago, Zenterus said:

All I care about is what works down in the field. Fuck all the theories and speculation. What. Actually. Works.

redpill is not about dating efficiency. Redpill is about dark truth to those who plan to get married and how fucked up , modern woman are. and many other truth

 

 

12 minutes ago, Zenterus said:

If I can't apply it to the field and get positive results, then its irrelevant to me and a lot of the red pill ideology is just that: Ideology.

yeah redpill is the observations made by gaming woman