So Air causes Cancer... that you believe?

[integral]

18 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@integral I use RoundUp for mouthwash

Using any mouthwash was the first sin of admittance. You'll breath tooth paste saliva all day! Its toxic!  

Edited Friday at 03:43 AM by integral

[integral]

4 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Can you show some studies in mechanism of action?

My citations is the experience of sitting in a room after lighting a incent. Then repeating it 100x over years with different variables and insights, to try to defeat the hypothesis. 

Experience is citable in my version of science. AKA: real science.  

Edited Friday at 03:50 AM by integral

[Carl-Richard]

4 minutes ago, integral said:

My citations is the experience of sitting in a room after lighting a incent. Then repeating it 100x over years with different variables and insights, to try to defeat the hypothesis. 

Experience is citable in my version of science. AKA: real science.  

But it helps citing a mechanism of action (like I did with the fish), because then you have one less reason that you might be simply imagining it or having some psychosomatic reaction (and not much else).

[Natasha Tori Maru]

2 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

But it helps citing a mechanism of action (like I did with the fish), because then you have one less reason that you might be simply imagining it or having some psychosomatic reaction (and not much else).

Placebo and nocebo 🎯

[integral]

42 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

because then you have one less reason that you might be simply imagining it or having some psychosomatic reaction (and not much else).

Why do you believe eating the Cod was caused by Mercury instead of nocebo?

[integral]

So for one if a person has insufficient body awareness, like lacking full body awareness, they won't notice much.

My feet feel different depending on what air I'm breathing, the level of vascular constriction and blood flow in my feet changes depending on what air I'm breathing. And how conscious I'm capable of being of my feet changes depending on the air I'm breathing. Depending on the air I am more conscious of my feet, depending on my air I could be less conscious in my feet. Level of Consciousness changes depending on what you're breathing. 

The vast majority of people can notice that if they eat a gigantic meal it will affect their state of consciousness. Okay why can't anyone understand that if you sit in a room filled with cigarette smokes this affects your state of consciousness. And then just take that to the next level that your indoor air is four times worse than your outdoor air and that your indoor is not clean air and that all of those chemicals in your air are affecting your state of consciousness.

Everything is affecting your state of consciousness. The idea that air is not doing anything is absurd.

Many times I don't even smell anything but I could tell what's in the air based on physiological changes. Unscented is not clean air it's just your nose has adapted, and you can't smell it.

And it doesn't need to be noticing change  it could be you just notice what you are. 

I know all the states I can be in.  every state that Ive ever been in at any moment is memorized and deeply internalized.

At any moment I observe myself and know what state I'm in. And I can reverse engineer how I reached this state.

Edited Friday at 05:07 AM by integral

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, integral said:

Why do you believe eating the Cod was caused by Mercury instead of nocebo?

Because I thought salmon and cod were equal in their contamination prior to that, and I had been seemingly fine eating salmon. I expected to be fine but I was not. I found out about the difference in mercury levels after the fact.

I had a similar thing happen when I tried a zinc supplement for the first time. I thought since because it increases testosterone, it would make me more hyped at the gym (I took it at the gym), but instead it made me more calm and relaxed. I was actually extremely surprised by this, and then I believe I looked it up at the gym and was like "ah, it has like 200 functions in the body, maybe that's why".

If something goes against your expectations, then it's much less likely to be placebo/nocebo. Placebo is very much tied to expectations, that's how placebo pills work.

Edited Friday at 06:37 AM by Carl-Richard

[vibv]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@integral I use RoundUp for mouthwash

Gotta kill those weeds.

[integral]

7 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Because I thought salmon and cod were equal in their contamination prior to that, and I had been seemingly fine eating salmon. I expected to be fine but I was not. I found out about the difference in mercury levels after the fact.

I had a similar thing happen when I tried a zinc supplement for the first time. I thought since because it increases testosterone, it would make me more hyped at the gym (I took it at the gym), but instead it made me more calm and relaxed. I was actually extremely surprised by this, and then I believe I looked it up at the gym and was like "ah, it has like 200 functions in the body, maybe that's why".

If something goes against your expectations, then it's much less likely to be placebo/nocebo. Placebo is very much tied to expectations, that's how placebo pills work.

So now every time you take zinc you can't trust yourself? Is your ability to make accurate self-assessments completely destroyed because you now understand that zinc has 200 mechanisms in the body so your going to nocebo yourself from now on?

Prior knowledge and prediction does not disqualify your experiences and automatically cause a placebo or nocebo.

This is essentially what you guys are proposing when I explain that I tested air thousand times in a million different variables.

I often don't smell anything at all I just feel the pain or fatigue or stimulation... Depending on specifically what's in the air. Every substance is different. They don't all blend into each other. In the same way zinc supplement will have a different effect than calcium supplement, they're so different that you can't mistake how it makes you feel from each other. Laundry detergent and an incence are two completely separate physiological effects that are easily differentiable. It's not blurred. And I am be exposed to these randomly all the time, and I know what substance is in the air because of the physiological effect.

 

Edited Friday at 01:56 PM by integral

[UnbornTao]

@integral This is not to say that one can't sometimes rightly establish some correlations between things (and also downright invent them out of thin, clean air), but this can easily become an extremely sloppy process in so many ways. This is why science exists. I'm sure you know of people who make self-assessments of their condition. How many times do they get it right? Often, it's a way to soothe oneself by having some plausible cause to attribute to what ails them.

[integral]

39 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

@integral This is not to say that one can't sometimes rightly establish some correlations between things (and also downright invent them out of thin, clean air), but this can easily become an extremely sloppy process in so many ways. This is why science exists. I'm sure you know of people who make self-assessments of their condition. How many times do they get it right? Often, it's a way to soothe oneself by having some plausible cause to attribute to what ails them.

Oh for sure I could have High mercury levels screwing up my system making me sensitive to air.

Finding the root causes is very hard to do and nebulous.

I'm not sure what you think the alternative is, there's no science out there to help you there's no doctors that are going to accurately diagnose you, its hell.

But in this case I established this air pattern in a widespread way testing even healthy people. And of course the science backs all this up, not that I need it... Because I'm doing science...

@UnbornTao do you believe a house filled with perfume has no impact on your consciousness, energy levels, creativity, various biological processes like hormones?

Edited Friday at 02:12 PM by integral

[Carl-Richard]

On 17.4.2026 at 3:10 PM, integral said:

So now every time you take zinc you can't trust yourself? Is your ability to make accurate self-assessments completely destroyed because you now understand that zinc has 200 mechanisms in the body so your going to nocebo yourself from now on?

????

If you have an experience with laundry detergent making you feel awful and then you expect other disruptions in the air to do the same but they end up doing the opposite, that would indicate the feeling is probably real. But that is not to say your feeling cannot be real otherwise. It's just harder to know. And because it's harder to know (and especially when the feeling and situation is subtle), you should probably be more skeptical until you gather more pieces of evidence. And I'm not saying you don't have more pieces of evidence. The response I made to your question was about me, not you (I wasn't making a point about how you're probably wrong).

[PsychedelicEagle]

I'm on @integral's side as far as this list goes.

A lot of these products are, to begin with, not even necessary. They were all made into people's habits due to mass marketing, as chemistry evolved throughout the 20th century allowing for such products that didn't exist before.

I haven't used a single drop of dish soap at home for the last 2y. If you don't cook with oils, no soap is required. 

Some things like skin creams I still use for hydration purposes — in such cases I try to go for truly clean ingredients & labels.

Edited 12 hours ago by PsychedelicEagle

[Leo Gura]

58 minutes ago, PsychedelicEagle said:

If you don't cook with oils, no soap is required. 

What? Food has oils in it.

Soap is not toxic and washes off with water.

You guys take things to ridiculous extremes. There's no need to avoid soap.

Edited 11 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Natasha Tori Maru]

3 hours ago, PsychedelicEagle said:

I'm on @integral's side as far as this list goes.

A lot of these products are, to begin with, not even necessary. They were all made into people's habits due to mass marketing, as chemistry evolved throughout the 20th century allowing for such products that didn't exist before.

I haven't used a single drop of dish soap at home for the last 2y. If you don't cook with oils, no soap is required. 

Some things like skin creams I still use for hydration purposes — in such cases I try to go for truly clean ingredients & labels.

But you don't add healthy oils to food? You don't add oils at all?!?! 

I use a lot of EVO in my daily foods. 

Edited 8 hours ago by Natasha Tori Maru

[integral]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You guys take things to ridiculous extremes. There's no need to avoid soap.

I think you're going overboard here, it's not that extreme to stop using soap. You're acting like it's this extreme unreasonable thing to do?

Even if there was nothing wrong with soap, it still cost money and time to orchestrate all these different soaps.

Dishwashing soap, handwashing soap, laundry soap, hair soap, toothpaste... so on.

Even if this stuff is perfectly fine, why bother doing any of this? The value it serves is at best convenience, it'll help you remove oils... like ok... just take more time washing instead? 

Edited 9 hours ago by integral

[integral]

5 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

????

If you have an experience with laundry detergent making you feel awful and then you expect other disruptions in the air to do the same but they end up doing the opposite, that would indicate the feeling is probably real. But that is not to say your feeling cannot be real otherwise. It's just harder to know. And because it's harder to know (and especially when the feeling and situation is subtle), you should probably be more skeptical until you gather more pieces of evidence. And I'm not saying you don't have more pieces of evidence. The response I made to your question was about me, not you (I wasn't making a point about how you're probably wrong).

That's perfectly reasonable, it could be the cod reaction that you had, had nothing to do with Mercury? It's true that the mercury is elevated in cod, but also it's pretty high in tuna. Do you have any bad reactions to tuna?

I suspect you're having a reaction to something else that's elevated in cod that's not normally found another fish, type of allergy. Parvalbumin maybe?

If you eat tuna and have no reaction, then it's probably not the mercury the problem. Mercury tends to cause indirect problems, like autoimmune disease and not normally a cause of direct stomach upset. 

Edited 8 hours ago by integral

[Carl-Richard]

8 hours ago, integral said:

That's perfectly reasonable, it could be the cod reaction that you had, had nothing to do with Mercury? It's true that the mercury is elevated in cod, but also it's pretty high in tuna. Do you have any bad reactions to tuna?

I suspect you're having a reaction to something else that's elevated in cod that's not normally found another fish, type of allergy. Parvalbumin maybe?

If you eat tuna and have no reaction, then it's probably not the mercury the problem. Mercury tends to cause indirect problems, like autoimmune disease and not normally a cause of direct stomach upset. 

I never eat tuna. I think I ate it on a cruise ship once by accident 8 years ago thinking it was chicken or beef ragú or something. But I was not in the mental claritymaxxing game by then and was chugging soda from the soda dispenser every waking moment of the day (so much so I got bored with soda and craved normal water).

It's not so much mercury in itself I'm pointing at. Mercury is just one of many things that tend to be elevated higher up in the food chain (and cod seems to be higher up than salmon). Mercury is like the placeholder of environmental toxins that accumulate up the food chain.

Edited 27 minutes ago by Carl-Richard

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@Carl-Richard not to derail but how do we feel about sardines? 

Major component of my diet. The only tuna I consume is tuna Tataki my dad makes once a month for me. Funnily enough, I cannot eat canned tuna - massive headaches and general feeling of being unwell after. Tataki is raw seared tuna. It is expensive so it amounts to around 70-100g total. 

Herring, sardines, rainbow trout & a tiny amount of salmon constitute the rest of my fish consumption. I love gummy shark but it is a mercury nightmare!

Edited 6 hours ago by Natasha Tori Maru

[Carl-Richard]

@Natasha Tori Maru

Our boy Siim recommends sardines and herring, generally smaller fish further down on the food chain. I might start eating those.

Edited 6 hours ago by Carl-Richard