The Manosphere Isn't About Men. Or Women

[something_else]

4 hours ago, Lila9 said:

Stop Calling It a fucking Pipeline

Why boys who idolize misogynists aren’t being groomed, they’re making a choice

There is something deeply dishonest about the way we talk about boys who idolize men like Andrew Tate.

We are told they are “vulnerable.” That they are “falling down a pipeline.” That they are being “groomed” into misogyny.

But listen carefully to what that framing actually implies.

It implies that when men are not centered, praised, or rewarded, they drift toward cruelty. That without constant validation, they become dangerous. That their violence is something that happens to them, not something they choose.

That is not compassion but rather quiet admission.

It is an admission that male morality is conditional.

Because let’s be honest about what is being said in all these headlines about “alienated young men” and “lost boys.” Strip away the soft language and the therapeutic tone, and the message becomes clear.

Men are angry that women have autonomy.

They are angry that women can say no. Angry that women can leave. Angry that women are no longer economically or socially forced to tolerate them.

And instead of confronting that reality, we dress it up as a crisis of male loneliness.

But loneliness does not create abusers.

I usually agree with your points, but I think this one is being overthought a bit. It very clearly is a pipeline, and it disproportionately affects vulnerable kids.

In particular, I think this is where the framing goes off:

Quote

It implies that when men are not centered, praised, or rewarded, they drift toward cruelty. That without constant validation, they become dangerous. That their violence is something that happens to them, not something they choose.

I don’t think that implication is there at all.

What’s actually happening is much simpler. Young boys, often in the 8–16 range, are being pulled into algorithm-driven content loops that progressively normalise these ideas. At that age, their ability to critically evaluate what they’re seeing is limited. It’s not that they have zero agency, but their ability to make an informed choice is heavily constrained.

It’s very similar to how young girls are influenced into makeup and beauty standards early on. We don’t describe that as a fully independent “choice” because it clearly isn’t. The same dynamic exists here, just in a different direction.

As they get older, I agree more with your point. At some stage, people are responsible for their views and actions. But early exposure matters, and it’s exactly why this content targets younger audiences so aggressively.

4 hours ago, Lila9 said:

But loneliness does not create abusers.

Not directly, but it plays a role. Isolation reduces social feedback, which makes it harder to develop empathy and calibrate behaviour. That doesn’t excuse anything, but it does increase the risk of someone adopting unhealthy views.

4 hours ago, Lila9 said:

Why is male anger treated as a crisis to be solved, while female suffering is treated as background noise?

Because, in many cases, it’s upstream of the problem. A lot of harm towards women ultimately comes from men who have developed unhealthy views early on.

If the goal is to reduce that harm, then creating healthier men isn’t excusing behaviour, it’s addressing the root cause.

Edited 12 hours ago by something_else

[StaraX]

19 hours ago, Rafael Thundercat said:

What some 5MEo trips do for a mind.

21 hours ago, StaraX said:

@Leo Gura What’s mind-blowing here is that back in 2014, your dating advice was full of positivity, hope and positive energy. For example, in your video called “How to Make a Girl Fall in Love with You” from 2014, you literally said, “Girls are attracted to personality, not looks…” with a big smile on your face. What happened, bro? Sure, people change their opinions and views, but it’s still rare for an evangelical to become a stagegreen hippie in12 years.

@Rafael Thundercat Lol, doesn't seem like a very powerful personal development tool.

[Raze]

6 hours ago, Elliott said:

That was not a scientific study, it was done by a propaganda group

"

+8

The Institute for Family Studies (IFS) is a US-based conservative think tank dedicated to strengthening marriage and family life while advancing the well-being of children through social science research and public education. It promotes policies supporting married, heterosexual-led families"

 

 

"Why do states with larger proportions of religious conservatives have higher divorce rates than states with lower proportions of religious conservatives? "

https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/full/10.1086/674703

 

"Based on data regarding women murdered by men (often termed intimate partner or domestic homicide), states with the highest rates frequently include Alaska, Louisiana, South Carolina, Oklahoma, and Nevada."

 

 

 

Conservatives are so happy about their marriages that they have 3 a piece!!!!

 

 

"However, where they did exist, we found that more religious people were actually more inclined to lie than less religious people. Interestingly, people who were motivated by their religious practices because of external incentives such as socializing and feeling protected were the most inclined to lie."

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-nature-deception/202209/the-paradox-religiosity-and-dishonesty

 

- The article is based on scientific data from a large yearly survey not collected by them. Just complaining about the organization is irrelevant to the points made.

- religious and conservative people are less likely to get divorced 

Edited 8 hours ago by Raze

[Elliott]

1 hour ago, Raze said:

- The article is based on scientific data from a large yearly survey not collected by them. Just complaining about the organization is irrelevant to the points made.

- religious and conservative people are less likely to get divorced 

No it's not, it says it was a survey and their employees were the researchers

"according to data that researchers Brad Wilcox and Grant Bailey of the Institute for Family Studies drew from the 2024 American Family Survey."

Either way, even their divorce rates on their data were close, there was no significant difference with their data.

 

 

"Why do states with larger proportions of religious conservatives have higher divorce rates than states with lower proportions of religious conservatives? "

https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/full/10.1086/674703

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 7 hours ago by Elliott

[integral]

[NewKidOnTheBlock]

9 minutes ago, integral said:

I ranked every ginger's soul on Earth:

[Raze]

1 hour ago, Elliott said:

No it's not, it says it was a survey and their employees were the researchers

"according to data that researchers Brad Wilcox and Grant Bailey of the Institute for Family Studies drew from the 2024 American Family Survey."

Either way, even their divorce rates on their data were close, there was no significant difference with their data.

 

 

"Why do states with larger proportions of religious conservatives have higher divorce rates than states with lower proportions of religious conservatives? "

https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/full/10.1086/674703

 

Nope.

The quote you posted proves my point. The data was from the American family survey which is from the Wheatley institute.

The states overall rate is irrelevant, there are many other factors related to that such as poverty rates and different subcultures. 

Research consistently finds religious and conservative Americans are less likely to get divorced and more likely to be satisfied in their marriages.

long-term Harvard-linked study found ~50% lower divorce rates among regular religious service attendees

https://hfh.fas.harvard.edu/religion-and-divorce

Higher religiosity is associated with higher reported marital satisfaction

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5319260/

Religious participation is linked to overall satisfaction among both married and unmarried couples in urban America

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2533156/

Edited 6 hours ago by Raze

[Elliott]

10 minutes ago, Raze said:

Nope.

The quote you posted proves my point. The data was from the American family survey which is from the Wheatley institute.

The states overall rate is irrelevant, there are many other factors related to that such as poverty rates and different subcultures. 

Research consistently finds religious and conservative Americans are less likely to get divorced and more likely to be satisfied in their marriages.

The Wheatley Institute at Brigham Young University (BYU) (Mormons)

Quote

long-term Harvard-linked study found ~50% lower divorce rates among regular religious service attendees

https://hfh.fas.harvard.edu/religion-and-divorce

Higher religiosity is associated with higher reported marital satisfaction

Nope "higher rate in later life. "

Quote

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5319260

 

This is the middle east

 

Edited 6 hours ago by Elliott

[Raze]

5 minutes ago, Elliott said:

The Wheatley Institute at Brigham Young University (BYU) (Mormons)

Nope "higher rate in later life. "

 

- Irrelevant, it had standard survey procedure, there isn’t evidence they falsify data 

- No, it says “religious service attendance is associated with 50% lower divorce rates in later life” 

[Elliott]

5 minutes ago, Raze said:

- Irrelevant, it had standard survey procedure, there isn’t evidence they falsify data 

- No, it says “religious service attendance is associated with 50% lower divorce rates in later life” 

It is cherry picking "later in life"

 

 

Atheist is lowest. And Note that blacks are highest, which would offset the liberal number

Edited 6 hours ago by Elliott

[Raze]

1 minute ago, Elliott said:

It is cherry picking "later in life"

Conservatives and religious people are more likely to be married in general which opens them up to the possibility of divorce more than others regardless of the actual rate per marriage.

[Elliott]

2 minutes ago, Raze said:

Conservatives and religious people are more likely to be married in general which opens them up to the possibility of divorce more than others regardless of the actual rate per marriage.

The survey is of people that were married, read the title

Look at atheist 30%

Edited 6 hours ago by Elliott

[Elliott]

Liberals don't marry as much and don't value marriage the same either, meaning lower bar to divorce or not marry. Conservative divorce is life shattering last resort.

 

 

Edited 6 hours ago by Elliott

[Elliott]

"Evangelicals Have Higher-than-average Divorce Rates ...

Feb 5, 2014 — Evangelical Christians have higher than average divorce rates -- in fact, being more likely to be divorced than Americans who claim no religion

https://news.web.baylor.edu/news/story/2014/evangelicals-have-higher-average-divorce-rates-according-report-compiled-baylor

 

 

https://www.learnreligions.com/divorce-rates-for-atheists-248494

Divorce Rates for Atheists Are Among the Lowest in America

Aug 24, 2018 — The highest divorce rates are in the Bible Belt: "Tennessee, Arkansas, Alabama, and Oklahoma round out the Top Five in the frequency of divorce.

 

 

 

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/02/140205103258.htm

Evangelical Christians have higher-than-average divorce rates, new ...

Feb 6, 2014 — Evangelical Christians have higher than average divorce rates -- in fact, being more likely to be divorced than Americans who claim no religion

Edited 6 hours ago by Elliott

[Raze]

1 hour ago, Elliott said:

"Evangelicals Have Higher-than-average Divorce Rates ...

Feb 5, 2014 — Evangelical Christians have higher than average divorce rates -- in fact, being more likely to be divorced than Americans who claim no religion

https://news.web.baylor.edu/news/story/2014/evangelicals-have-higher-average-divorce-rates-according-report-compiled-baylor

 

 

https://www.learnreligions.com/divorce-rates-for-atheists-248494

Divorce Rates for Atheists Are Among the Lowest in America

Aug 24, 2018 — The highest divorce rates are in the Bible Belt: "Tennessee, Arkansas, Alabama, and Oklahoma round out the Top Five in the frequency of divorce.

 

 

 

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/02/140205103258.htm

Evangelical Christians have higher-than-average divorce rates, new ...

Feb 6, 2014 — Evangelical Christians have higher than average divorce rates -- in fact, being more likely to be divorced than Americans who claim no religion

Other surveys find evangelicals divorce at the same rate

https://www.christiantoday.com/news/us-evangelical-christians-are-divorcing-at-the-same-rate-as-the-general-population-study-finds

Also this is just cherry picking a specific group. Evangelicals have many other issues such as living in rural areas that got harmed by jobs going overseas and the opioid crisis. 

[Raze]

2 hours ago, Elliott said:

The survey is of people that were married, read the title

Look at atheist 30%

This says liberals are higher than conservatives 

[Elliott]

2 hours ago, Raze said:

Other surveys find evangelicals divorce at the same rate

https://www.christiantoday.com/news/us-evangelical-christians-are-divorcing-at-the-same-rate-as-the-general-population-study-finds

Also this is just cherry picking a specific group. Evangelicals have many other issues such as living in rural areas that got harmed by jobs going overseas and the opioid crisis. 

Catholics are only 52% republican

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Elliott

[Elliott]

2 hours ago, Raze said:

This says liberals are higher than conservatives 

Yep 9% higher. And this is by a Christian organization. Blacks are the highest, I think that skews liberals higher as well.

I would suggest liberals value marriage less and therefore divorce easier. Conservatives, divorce is much more serious to.

Louisiana, Arkansas, Tennessee, least happy states most religious, maybe unhappy marriages they won't end.

Edited 1 hour ago by Elliott

[Raze]

54 minutes ago, Elliott said:

Yep 9% higher. And this is by a Christian organization. Blacks are the highest, I think that skews liberals higher as well.

I would suggest liberals value marriage less and therefore divorce easier. Conservatives, divorce is much more serious to.

 

Louisiana, Arkansas, Tennessee, least happy states most religious, maybe unhappy marriages they won't end.

I already posted multiple studies showing religious couples report higher marital satisfaction 

Blacks aren’t necessarily more liberal than whites, they are more likely to vote democrat but they more often say they are moderate or even conservative but support democrats regardless. 

Edited 1 hour ago by Raze

[Elliott]

1 hour ago, Raze said:

I already posted multiple studies showing religious couples report higher marital satisfaction 

Blacks aren’t necessarily more liberal than whites, they are more likely to vote democrat but they more often say they are moderate or even conservative but support democrats regardless. 

Do you think conservatives never put out false or misleading findings like that? They were from religious organizations, biased. Could you imagine a church saying Christians are less happy? All it takes is stopping the survey when you get a desired result, or surveying non Christians in poor areas. That's why it's good to use peer reviewed studies like I posted.

The one you posted did what is called p-hacking when doing a science experiment, it's the normal way scientists manipulate data, it's not an approved method. They retro actively re-categorized, instead of just re publishing the exact survey results. The only reason to do that is if you have an agenda, to manipulate the results.

 

Edited 2 minutes ago by Elliott