What is Spirituality?

[Vladimir]

What is Spirituality to you? 

To me Spirituality is - wisdom gained through direct experience and integrated in consensual reality. 

Sounds smart I know, that's because I am. 

[Elliott]

23 minutes ago, Vladimir said:

 

To me Spirituality is - wisdom gained through direct experience and integrated in consensual reality. 

That's philosophy to me. Spirituality to me is that which is metaphysical and cannot be explained, this doesn't mean made up though, not 'believing in God' or 'faith', it's something actually experienced. There's no knowledge or wisdom paired with spirituality - for me, I consider that to just be philosophy. Spirituality is infinite, any "wisdom" is finite.

Edited Wednesday at 02:24 PM by Elliott

[Vladimir]

21 minutes ago, Elliott said:

That's philosophy to me. Spirituality to me is that which is metaphysical and cannot be explained, this doesn't mean made up though, not 'believing in God' or 'faith', it's something actually experienced. There's no knowledge or wisdom paired with spirituality - for me, I consider that to just be philosophy. Spirituality is infinite, any "wisdom" is finite.

I think I get what you’re pointing to with spirituality being something directly experienced and not really capturable in concepts.

How do you see the role of integration after the experience though?

Because even if the experience itself is beyond explanation, it still seems like something changes in how a person lives or understands things afterwards.

Would you say that stays completely separate from knowledge and wisdom, or do you see some connection there?

Also when you describe it as infinite, do you mean that in the sense that it can’t be fully grasped or contained?

[Elliott]

1 hour ago, Vladimir said:

I think I get what you’re pointing to with spirituality being something directly experienced and not really capturable in concepts.

How do you see the role of integration after the experience though?

Spiritually; it doesn't matter, Philosophically; some things might be integrated or useful.

1 hour ago, Vladimir said:

Because even if the experience itself is beyond explanation, it still seems like something changes in how a person lives or understands things afterwards.

Would you say that stays completely separate from knowledge and wisdom, or do you see some connection there?

I think the entire "a person" is philosophical.

1 hour ago, Vladimir said:

Also when you describe it as infinite, do you mean that in the sense that it can’t be fully grasped or contained?

That everything is actually true. So, the wisdom one gets is just conceptual; ultimately 'all is evil' is just as true as 'all is love' or whatever other wisdom you attain like 'there is a self' is just as true as 'there is no self', anything.

[Elliott]

Think of what 'spirit' means: spirit, life and animation, what in the world kind of limits could there possibly  be if animation/life/spirit exists? There's seemingly obviously no limits, not even on contradictions.

Edited Wednesday at 06:15 PM by Elliott

[Vladimir]

Quote

That everything is actually true. So, the wisdom one gets is just conceptual; ultimately 'all is evil' is just as true as 'all is love' or whatever other wisdom you attain like 'there is a self' is just as true as 'there is no self', anything.

Think of what 'spirit' means: spirit, life and animation, what in the world limits could there possibly be if animation/life/spirit exists? There's seemingly obviously no limits, not even on contradictions.

I see what you're saying about spirituality being something infinite and beyond concepts at an Absolute level.

At the same time, I don't see it as completely separate from how someone actually lives.

Because even if the experience itself is beyond explanation, it still affects a person's life and expresses itself. 

Like, if nothing at all changes in how a person relates to themselves or to life after something “spiritual,” then there is nothing that distinguishes it from just any other experience.

So for me, the integration part isn’t about reducing spirituality to concepts, but more about how it shows up in reality.

Otherwise it starts to feel like something that’s completely disconnected from life, and I’m not sure what its significance would be then.

How do you see that? Does it have any expression in how someone lives, or is it completely separate for you?

Edited Wednesday at 05:06 PM by Vladimir

[Elliott]

26 minutes ago, Vladimir said:

 

Otherwise it starts to feel like something that’s completely disconnected from life, and I’m not sure what its significance would be then.

 

I suggest exploring spirituality like that and see where it takes you.

[Vladimir]

26 minutes ago, Elliott said:

I suggest exploring spirituality like that and see where it takes you.

I'm definitely exploring spirituality through my own direct experience. What I’ve noticed so far is that the experiences that feel the most “spiritual” also tend to have a very real impact on how I live, relate to myself, and relate to others. It’s less about trying to define it, and more about noticing that whatever this is, spirituality is not disconnected from life in practice.

[Carl-Richard]

Ego grasping for what it thinks is the ultimate until it dies.

[Elliott]

12 minutes ago, Vladimir said:

I'm definitely exploring spirituality through my own direct experience. What I’ve noticed so far is that the experiences that feel the most “spiritual” also tend to have a very real impact on how I live, relate to myself, and relate to others. It’s less about trying to define it, and more about noticing that whatever this is, spirituality is not disconnected from life in practice.

I'm just trying to explain my view of what spirituality vs philosophy is. I don't think I can explain it any better, and you trying what I'm suggesting is the best way I can think of for you to understand my view.

[Ziran]

4 hours ago, Vladimir said:

wisdom gained through direct experience and integrated in consensual reality. 

And integrated ... how?  I'm asking because it's reasonable to conclude there are many different ways to integrate it/them, some better than others?

I'm wondering about it.

4 hours ago, Vladimir said:

What is Spirituality to you? 

Thank you for the thought provoking question. 

I prefer an inclusive broad definition, rather than narrow.  For example, I include olfactory sensory feedback within the category of "spiritual".

The best definition I've heard comes from the Quran.  "This book is for those who believe the unseen."

The action of "believing" the "unseen", is Spirituality... to me.

[Vladimir]

1 hour ago, Ziran said:

And integrated ... how?  I'm asking because it's reasonable to conclude there are many different ways to integrate it/them, some better than others?

I'm wondering about it.

Thank you for the thought provoking question. 

I prefer an inclusive broad definition, rather than narrow.  For example, I include olfactory sensory feedback within the category of "spiritual".

The best definition I've heard comes from the Quran.  "This book is for those who believe the unseen."

The action of "believing" the "unseen", is Spirituality... to me.

That’s a good question.

When I say “integration,” I'm talking about how the experience actually becomes part of how I live.

For me it shows up in simple but real ways:

• learning to listen to and honor my body
• breathwork and being more conscious of how I breathe
• spending time in nature, swimming, nature walks or just being present with the environment
• journaling and reflecting on what I’m going through
• choosing awareness in areas of my life that are asking for attention
• paying attention to dreams
• working on things that feel aligned with my life
• moving my body in a more conscious way
• being more intentional about who I spend time with and the environment I’m in

And also in how I respond to life itself. Situations that used to trigger me don’t hit the same way anymore, or I can stay present with them instead of reacting automatically. That’s one of the clearest signs for me that something has actually been integrated.

So it’s less about the experience itself, and more about whether it actually changes how I relate to life afterwards.

[VeganAwake]

9 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Ego grasping for what it thinks is the ultimate until it dies.

🫢👌

[Jirh]

Spirituality = Emotional Philosophy

It's the kind of philosophy that's built based on feeling and intuition rather than logic or the mind.

It's the study of what makes life alive.

[Willy Phallicus]

20 hours ago, Vladimir said:

What is Spirituality to you? 

Going home.  

Remembering.

[gettoefl]

1. accept 2. recognise 3. realize, that I am not here. A body will continue as a wind-up toy on a pre-set course until it ends in the ground. Like Nisagadatta said, I am but I am not that. Spirituality is to realize before said body enters the ground.

Edited 17 hours ago by gettoefl

[Elliott]

@Vladimir

I thought of a different way to try to explain my view of spirituality, and why I call this wisdom integration to be just philosophy.

 

Pay attention to the year numbers changing in these videos(top right corner in first video), your life is say 100 years. This wisdom integration, say you get to Buddha or whatever stage integration, think about what that means for the universe, think of what it means for the 250,000 years of homo sapiens, the 50,000 years for Eurasia. 🤣🤣🤣

(I'm not laughing at you)

 

 

 

Now, what I call spirituality envelops all of this, I'm just a little speck in a blip of time, paying taxes and yelling at ignorant bigots that are destroying our ecosystem(itself a speck and a blip). Wisdom integration?..... what the fuck are you gonna do, solve world peace, who cares? Ultimately. Spiritually speaking, of course, Philosophically, ya, I wanna be smart and at peace. Spiritually - a speck of a blip, all of humanity, let alone this life.

 

 

ALL of this /\ is right here, this isn't distant, it isn't foreign or alien. Go lay under the stars and know that your life is nothing, lol, that all of this /\ IS, and right now, and here - look up at the stars, you're there /\ in that video. And there's no separation between you and the rest of that, how is your hand anymore you than the chair across the room? Than all of this /\, where do you truly end? Why do you think the end of you is your fingertips or toes? Why do you think you control your fingers more than that chair, more than a planet? Do you force every breath in your lungs, every heartbeat? But that's your lungs right? How do you know your thought for you to move your finger is actually your will?

Edited 1 hour ago by Elliott