Would you die for your own country?

[Iblitan]

How do you view nationalism on a personal development level? Would you sacrifice yourself for your own country? Obviously I know nationalism is important for cohesion and unity between members of a society, but on the personal development level, do you think being nationalistic or patriotic is important? Do you believe in blind patriotism? especially towards a country that failed you in every way. I was born in a shithole(egypt) and I hate it with every fiber of my being. I can never relate to the people. But I see others still being loyal to it, so I wonder if loving your own country is central to a good life. Can you even change where you're from? When can you call yourself from country X rather than your original country? @Leo Gura You're originally russian but you moved to the US. Do you call yourself American or Russian? On what basis? If both countries were at war, who would you fight for? Or would you even fight for any country at all?

Edited 15 hours ago by Iblitan

[LordFall]

Sure if I thought it would make a difference and actually save people and not be a ploy for the deeper enslavement of my people like most wars are today. 

[Oeaohoo]

No… And most of the Western world now agrees with me. None of these countries offer anything worth dying for.

[Iblitan]

@Oeaohoo That's surprising considering western countries offer a high quality of life some even destroying other countries just to gain more wealth or power. Would you not want to fight for a country that offers you a good life?

 

 

[NewKidOnTheBlock]

Never, and I genuinely don't think there's anything anyone could do to make me fight in a war. Genuinely any outcome is better than that

[Basman]

People's feeling on whether or not they would fight a war depends on if there's a good cause and a lot of fervor. Early WW2, Ukraine and 9/11 saw spikes in volunteers.

We have no enemies that feel real today. But people will change their mind if there's suddenly a clear and concrete enemy. 

Edited 13 hours ago by Basman

[Ulax]

I would potentially be prepared to lay down my life for values I believe in. That may coincide with fighting for my country. But I wouldn't fight for my country because of the fact that its my country.

Though its easy to say now. I imagine my country would put use all manners of manipulation to get me to join.

My country is more developed than Ukraine in terms of its dominant ideologies but just look at what they did there in Ukraine to get men to join the military. They restricted any guy from like 18 - something like 60 (not sure exact age) from leaving the country. And forced many to join the army.

To me that ought to be a war crime. To enslave your citizen population to fight for you is barbaric. I don't care how it affects the likelihood of military victory.

Edited 13 hours ago by Ulax

[Lila9]

It depends on SD. The foundation of a nation-state is Blue, and people in Blue are often the patriots willing to die for the state.

Orange is too individualistic for that, and Green doesn’t understand what the point of wars is to begin with or why humans can’t just be one big family.

The reality is that borders require sacrifice in blood to protect the inhabitants of the territory, with its collective identity and shared culture and values, from other hostile cultures. This is an inconvenient truth, but someone has to do this labor until humanity is more developed.

[Lila9]

I also think that it is very easy to influence young people into dying for their country.

I live in a country where military service is mandatory, even for women, and when I served, I noticed that most people take for granted the idea that sacrificing their time, human potential, and even their bodies for the collective is the right thing to do.

At 18 which is the age when most people begin military service, the brain is still very young, impressionable and naive. 

I was in a Combat Support role and served close to dangerous areas, and I had almost no fear because of my youth and naivety. 

When I see young people die during their military service, I feel especially sorry for them because they sort of forced into it without the opportunity to fully understand the risk and the consequences of being in the military.

Edited 11 hours ago by Lila9

[Basman]

8 hours ago, Ulax said:

My country is more developed than Ukraine in terms of its dominant ideologies but just look at what they did there in Ukraine to get men to join the military. They restricted any guy from like 18 - something like 60 (not sure exact age) from leaving the country. And forced many to join the army.

To me that ought to be a war crime. To enslave your citizen population to fight for you is barbaric. I don't care how it affects the likelihood of military victory.

That's easy to judge when your not facing an existential threat. It's not your country being invaded.

Big wars require lots of bodies, so you have to force men into it to meet demand. Especially if you don't have a big professionalized army like the US. It's collective survival. 

Of course a big draft can be socially deleterious, but you have to weigh that against the threat level. Vietnam was a pointless war, so the draft strengthened opposition against it at home. 

[Basman]

People who join the army are typically young enough where they don't really "have a life" and big goals. The typical user here would rather double down on their aspirations I think. Not to mention all the mental and health issues you see on display here. 

[LoneWonderer]

8 hours ago, Ulax said:

I would potentially be prepared to lay down my life for values I believe in. That may coincide with fighting for my country. But I wouldn't fight for my country because of the fact that its my country.

@Ulax I'd say I agree with you here.

[Basman]

Because we've had a long string of pointless wars in recent history, leftist start thinking that all wars are pointless. Just wars are just rare. You don't see anyone really say that America shouldn't have invaded the Axis.

[Schahin]

It depens on where your own country. I am a German Born Iranian, and was never accepted as a German ever.

Adding to the atrocities that Germany is supporting in Gaza, Lebanon and the West Bank I would not even think a second about defending Germany when it comes to war.

If I was in Iran now I also wouldnt defend the Regime of the Ayatollahs, who are criminals. I would do the smartest thing possible and flee like 100s of millions of people have done historically already. It makes no sense to fight for a peace of land

Edited 2 hours ago by Schahin

[Oeaohoo]

12 hours ago, Iblitan said:

@Oeaohoo That's surprising considering western countries offer a high quality of life some even destroying other countries just to gain more wealth or power. Would you not want to fight for a country that offers you a good life?

I don't think it is surprising: it makes no sense to go through extreme material hardship in war just for the sake of material well-being back home. It only makes sense to die for something which transcends your individuality. "There is a field forever called England" or something like that.

In most of Western Europe, only a quarter or less of the population is willing to die for their country. The number increases as one moves closer to Russia, for obvious reasons...

[Iblitan]

@Schahin That's interesting. Do you identify as a german or an iranian? Which would you call home? Or do you see yourself as someone who lives in whichever country that's suitable for them and identity doesn't really matter?