Struggles with Game as an INFP

[Oppositionless]

This is almost entirely conjecture but if I had to guess 

pickup is obviously harder for introverts (I) than extroverts (E)

harder for intuitives (N) than sensors (S)

and harder for thinkers (T) than feelers (F)

the P/J dichotomy I don't think has an impact 

leo is an intp so pickup for him was xxl difficulty 

Edited yesterday at 09:48 PM by Oppositionless

[bazera]

34 minutes ago, Miguel1 said:

When I say depth, I want to truly penetrate the other person, on a body-mind-soul level. I want to know how they REALLY, AUTHENTICALLY (and not some BS socially correct answer that they answer unconsciously, and have so for a million times) feel and think about important topics in life: meaning of life for them, what are their biggest dreams and goals, what kind of a person they truly are: their values, their personality traits, weaknesses and strengths. What is their level of empathy and moral development? What are they most afraid and scared of? What do they deeply desire, want and need in a romantic partner? What kind of friends do they have? Why did they break up from their last relationship and what did they learn from it?

How self-aware are they? How aware are they of their self-deceptions, biases, assumptions and judgements? What is their cognitive development?

How in touch with their emotions are they? Do they have the ability to open up and be vulnerable? Are they overly emotional? Can they regulate their own emotions?

Good stuff!

Have you ever experienced all that with a girl, and knew her so well that you had answers to all those question in relation to her? Doesn't it get boring after a while? Maybe after years? 

What I'm asking is, how sustainable is that kind of intimacy, it's very exciting in the beginning, but can the excitement last through years? 

How can we maintain intimacy through the years? That's what I'm trying to figure out. I guess it has stages, and the initial stages are especially exciting, when all those questions you listed are fresh and you're in a discovery phase. Maybe it goes deeper and deeper, but also it might get shallow over time. Depends on the person and also depends on how far can you go in that, how deeply you grasp some of these stuff, that can be deepened more and more.

[Miguel1]

9 minutes ago, bazera said:

Good stuff!

Have you ever experienced all that with a girl, and knew her so well that you had answers to all those question in relation to her? Doesn't it get boring after a while? Maybe after years? 

What I'm asking is, how sustainable is that kind of intimacy, it's very exciting in the beginning, but can the excitement last through years? 

How can we maintain intimacy through the years? That's what I'm trying to figure out. I guess it has stages, and the initial stages are especially exciting, when all those questions you listed are fresh and you're in a discovery phase. Maybe it goes deeper and deeper, but also it might get shallow over time. Depends on the person and also depends on how far can you go in that, how deeply you grasp some of these stuff, that can be deepened more and more.

That’s the only way you have real intimacy.

Later on it isn’t about wild hormones going crazy, but rather real love and partnership towards each other, based on full trust, loyalty, friendship + romance.

The exciting, hormonal stuff is not sustainable, nor real intimacy. It is what immature and unconscious people chase.

Edited yesterday at 10:12 PM by Miguel1

[Leo Gura]

30 minutes ago, Miguel1 said:

Pickup was my food back when I was a complete devil. You have no idea what an extremely selfish version of a good-looking (exotic as well, as I am in an extremely white-skinned country, where they look at tan like a God-given gift, no kidding, and I have it naturally) manipulative, highly charismatic ENFJ is capable of, when it comes to attracting girls.

Interesting arc.

[bazera]

3 minutes ago, Miguel1 said:

That’s the only way you have real intimacy.

Later on it isn’t about wild hormones going crazy, but rather real love and partnership towards each other, based on full trust, loyalty, friendship + romance.

The exciting, hormonal stuff is not sustainable, nor real intimacy. It is what immature and unconscious people chase.

You seem to have gone through the pickup phase and saw the shallowness of it. Did that desire for long-term love and partnership come after exhausting that more primitive need or it was there in the beginning as well?

[Oppositionless]

@Miguel1 interesting . Silly question , did you ever get "mogged" by ESFJ Bros? Or could you easily defuse them?

Bros like that have always loved to pick on me.

The ENFJ depth is fascinating to me. I never really think about relationships in that way , in that sense I need less from relationships. Generally as long as someone isn't an asshole I'm happy to chill with them. But I'm also somewhat detached from people.

Edited 16 hours ago by Oppositionless

[Rigel]

1 hour ago, Miguel1 said:

That’s the only way you have real intimacy.

Later on it isn’t about wild hormones going crazy, but rather real love and partnership towards each other, based on full trust, loyalty, friendship + romance.

The exciting, hormonal stuff is not sustainable, nor real intimacy. It is what immature and unconscious people chase.

Bingo. Sustainable relationships don’t usually start with a blast of passion. That’ll likely end up burning both parties. Clear headed assessment of compatibility is key. Then you build passion on top of that solid base.

 

[ROOBIO]

21 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Haha!

That's an introvert.

Introverts are not Unibombers living in a  shed.

Extroverts go socialize to recharge. And they can't stop yapping verbal diahrea.

Lol, this is my life right now. I quit my job in the west. Moved to Sri Lanka. Living in paradise, in solitude.

Meditating/Kriya 3-5 hours a day. Working on my own mental health startup from my computer.

My life is so simple, isolated, yet fully alive. Probably the most I have ever felt.

Walking on the beach I came across a saltwater crocodile with no legs. 

I feel so much more at home being alone then with being around people all the time. 

Well right now that is. 

Love is here right now, within us, if you can cry at a women stroking a dog. Seeing the beauty in that. The beauty in all qualia. Seeing yourself as colour not as human. What do you need

 

Edited 20 hours ago by ROOBIO

[PenguinPablo]

5 hours ago, Oppositionless said:

This is almost entirely conjecture but if I had to guess 

pickup is obviously harder for introverts (I) than extroverts (E)

harder for intuitives (N) than sensors (S)

and harder for thinkers (T) than feelers (F)

the P/J dichotomy I don't think has an impact 

leo is an intp so pickup for him was xxl difficulty 

I think I might also be INTP.

It might be harder in some ways for perceiving types since they struggle more with follow through and structure which is needed to learn game in a more systematic way -- which could be described as almost definitionally. 

What's the formula open, hook, close?

Edited 19 hours ago by PenguinPablo

[Leo Gura]

As an INTP, I enjoyed learning the theory of game more than going out and doing game.

Lol.

[PenguinPablo]

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

As an INTP, I enjoyed learning the theory of game more than going out and doing game.

Lol.

Point proven.

INTPs do it for the love of learning.

Not necessarily as execution obsessed like INTJ or ENTJ.

Still I struggle to close this loop in my life until I gain somewhat of level of results. 

I think for certain personality types need to be okay with "settling" or adjusting the bar according to their temperament. 

Maybe it's the wrong goal to begin with.

[Oppositionless]

@PenguinPablo I realized I only wanted to get good at game because I had a mistaken belief that my worth as a human and as a man depended on my prowess with women. If I could go back I would have married the girl I lucked into when I was 21 and focused my attention on awakening.

 

Edited 18 hours ago by Oppositionless

[PenguinPablo]

25 minutes ago, Oppositionless said:

@PenguinPablo If I could go back I would have married the girl I lucked into when I was 21 and focused my attention on awakening.

@Oppositionless Thank you for sharing this. 

Yeah and I def think about that.

The amount of time being wasted obsessing over a false goal. 

Likely preventing me from connecting with others (or myself) authentically. 

Imma figure out my way out of this. 

It's now or never, either way.

Edited 18 hours ago by PenguinPablo

[ROOBIO]

2 hours ago, PenguinPablo said:

@Oppositionless Thank you for sharing this. 

Yeah and I def think about that.

The amount of time being wasted obsessing over a false goal. 

Likely preventing me from connecting with others (or myself) authentically. 

Imma figure out my way out of this. 

It's now or never, either way.

Yeah because the whole framework in which pickup is built is toxic. 

There are important teachings behind it. But the why is fucked up. A lot of my pickup buddies care about lays per year. There is one guy I know who has fucked 800 girls, but never had a girlfriend. Thats what doesn't hold. Toxic stage orange and a bit of red.

Why do you get into pickup? That is a question you should ask. 

For me it is this now. It helps you attract women, which in turn develops key skills that are helpful for you as a man. Also, you attract women to find a women that is aligned with your values, your lifestyle, and that you can grow with. This is way more beautiful then sleeping with endless women.

I made the same mistake, letting go of a girl because my mind was inundated with these toxic pickup philosophies. Take the good stuff, leave the bad.

[PenguinPablo]

@ROOBIO

7 hours ago, ROOBIO said:

There are important teachings behind it. But the why is fucked up. A lot of my pickup buddies care about lays per year. There is one guy I know who has fucked 800 girls, but never had a girlfriend. Thats what doesn't hold. Toxic stage orange and a bit of red.

 

 

That is a wasted life. 

Think about how many years and, and how much of his focus was placed towards such a shallow goal. 

And no girlfriend is insane. 

Has a similar energy as John Anthony's trajectory.

[Oppositionless]

Lays per year is a sociopathic metric 

[Miguel1]

Leading is another thing I enjoy highly. And not only sexully but leading people in general.

Men here in Finland are typically such wimps, that in the pua community they say that Helsinki is full of beautiful blondes and no men.

The culture here is very biased towards listening to authority, which has its own beauty because Finland is probably the least corrupted country politically, in the whole world.

But that means that in social settings, it usually has to be me to step up and lead, which I enjoy a lot.

[Miguel1]

22 hours ago, bazera said:

You seem to have gone through the pickup phase and saw the shallowness of it. Did that desire for long-term love and partnership come after exhausting that more primitive need or it was there in the beginning as well?

Good question. I started my pick up journey as a blue pilled guy, like virtually all of us. I just wanted to find the one, but quickly got my heart destroyed, then got into game and female psychology. The desire for true love was always there but 1. it came from deep lack, immaturity and scarcity and 2. I got heavily into pick up to protect my heart from ever breaking so badly again. That's when I truly entered my devil phase.

After my first 2 relationships, before entering my 3rd I was already quite the devil. I was with my 3rd gf for 3 years. After breaking up from that, instead of facing the pain, I completely drowned myself in girls. I was 23-24 at this point. Man, in 1 year, I had sex with easily over 100 girls. I lost count along the way but it was almost a full-time job. I was working evening shifts so I could hit the club 3-4 times a week.

My game basically got so good at this point, that I was easily having sex with 2-3 new girls a week. It was just extremely time-consuming. After 8 months or so of doing that, I got so sick of it, and then covid hit, which actually was a complete blessing for me, as it forced me to finally face myself and my heartbreak from my 3rd relationship. After covid, I came out a new man, I had learned to finally be with myself, and to enjoy my own company without having to run away from myself chasing pussy.

I went to a cruise where there wasn't many people around. I met one of the only beautiful girls there and turns out she had a boyfriend so I was like well, what to do, lets drop game and lets just befriend her. We connected and shared our lives for 3 hours, a smaller form of what I described in another comment yesterday. After few hours of that, she drops the bomb: "so we are having a phase with my boyfriend where I am allowed to explore my sexuality ((with girls))". Anyway, one thing lead to another and I had the best sex out of that 100 girls, BY FAR. I made love to this girl like I truly fucking cared, and it was a holy experience, rather than previously using the girls just to run away from myself and to feed my ego.

That was the moment that got me to finally accept: "holy shit, pick up won't do it for me anymore, and I need serious connection with a special girl".

So I went full circle back to looking for that special girl, but this time with 1. abundance and 2. not afraid to have my heart broken. But. I was still immature as I was very young. Met my last girlfriend and was with her for 5 years. It was a beautiful relationship, with lots of unconsciousness and hardships. But I was more truthful and honest than I had ever been with anyone, by far. I had always seen honesty and openness as key things in relationships, but during that relationship, I really learned the importance of it.

We parted ways 6 months ago due to finally accepting that we are very different people and not compatible. I matured in that 5 years 10 times more than I matured in the previous 25 years. It was also 5 years of heavily studying Leo, whereas before that I had not started studying Leo.

Leo directly affected that break up, for sure. I am grateful as it would have otherwise taken 10 years. It should have been 3 years max, but I was still too naive and immature. I've learned so much from that relationship, and I am ready for a more mature version of that.

[Miguel1]

22 hours ago, Oppositionless said:

@Miguel1 interesting . Silly question , did you ever get "mogged" by ESFJ Bros? Or could you easily defuse them?

Bros like that have always loved to pick on me.

The ENFJ depth is fascinating to me. I never really think about relationships in that way , in that sense I need less from relationships. Generally as long as someone isn't an asshole I'm happy to chill with them. But I'm also somewhat detached from people.

I only got into MBTI like 3-4 years ago. And I have not studied ESFJs to the point where I could even identify them. But I've gotten mogged by some of these extroverted types, yes.

For me, I am mostly detached from people as well. But if it is a serious, monogamous relationship, it better be fucking deep. Otherwise what is the point? I can have 10 fuckbuddies, friends with benefits whatever. They dont satisfy me, and they waste my time.

I am not satisfied by shallow relationships, where we watch movies 2 evenings a week. What a waste of time! I rather spend that time building something deep via my life purpose.

[Miguel1]

21 hours ago, Rigel said:

Bingo. Sustainable relationships don’t usually start with a blast of passion. That’ll likely end up burning both parties. Clear headed assessment of compatibility is key. Then you build passion on top of that solid base.

Correct. Butterfly in stomach feeling is actually your body responding in fight or flight mode.

Passion based on real alignment in values and compatibility is where real beauty lies. Unfortunately, most people are too immature to value that, and chase novelty, excitement and fast passion.