Examples of Neurodivergence from real Life

[Cred]

I wanted to make a thread, dedicated to sharing and discussing stories from real life together with their respective analyses, utilizing the lens of neurodivergence.

It is also possible to talk about peculiar situations (for example where you felt alienated for some reason) from your lives to then discuss the impact of possible neurodivergence or neurotypicalness of different actors in the respective stories.

[Cred]

About the insane Social-Symbolic-Alien Language non-Truth-Sensitive-People use

Do you also hate making presents? 

Since forever, my family hates on me for sucking at making presents. And I beat myself up for it. They say I'm not empathic enough, too egoistic bla bla bla. My best explanation was, that I'm an only child and I've never properly learned it.

Theory break: According to me, there exists a kind of neurodiversity I call "Truth-Sensitive-Person" (TSP). I believe, that TSPs exist on a spectrum between object-sensitive-person (OSP) and subject-sensitive-person (SSP) (this model is a work in progress. In previous posts, I used TLP). What all TSPs have in common is a love for absolute truth and a disdain for and a lack of understanding of social truths. More on that below.

I have an alternative explanation now. My grandma told me that she is always super thrilled and happy when she receives little gifts like cake from her cleaning lady, and she is disappointed that me and my mom (also SSP) would not engage in little acts of affection like these too.

What I've noticed is that this (happiness about gifts from others for their own sake) is not the case for me and my mom at all. Which means that even if we were lazy and egoistic (which we are not) we are at least not hypocrites. In fact, we are always annoyed by gifts from other people, when they are not useful to us.

You might now say: "Of course you are. Why would you be happy to receive a gift that you have no use for?" 

If you believe this logic, you might be on the TSP spectrum. Because for a non-TSP, this logic does not apply at all. When they receive a gift from someone they love, they are super thrilled if that gift is well-meant.

The crucial thing to understand, and it is hard to understand for TSPs, is that non-TSPs are not thrilled about the present itself. They get most of their pleasure from the gesture. The present is a symbol to them.

This is because non-TSPs speak a completely batshit insane kind of social-symbolic-alien language they picked up and learned passively through conformity like their native language and are super confused about anyone who struggles to speak it, like TSPs, who only care about information (or spiritual truth if you are HSP) and struggle to pick up on these social symbols.

Expecting a TSP to implicitly understand this social symbolic language is like starting to talk to some random person on the street in chinese and then being mad and confused, if they don't understand the fuck you're saying. And non-TSPs do that all the damn time! This leads TSPs to develop social anxiety, low self-esteem, etc.

People who are TSPs naturally struggle with social situations, especially competitive ones because of this. They will genuinely start believing they have to learn tens of hours of pickup theory and do thousands of approaches to be successful without ever understanding, that they are not meant to engage in this alien language, the same way someone with an IQ of 80 is not meant to study thermodynamics. (If you think you might be TSP, you don't have to worry, just seek out other TSPs irl. They understand you perfectly and vice versa)

I want to give another example from my life. I once dated a girl with heavy ADHD. This made her relatable to me, but she is not a TSP.

One day, she was kind of in a bad mood, and she asked me: "Do you think I drink too much water?".

I answered by dumping her with all the information I knew about the topic "how much water is too much water".

After that, she was pissed and said: "What does any of this have to do with the question?".

I was stumped. What did I do wrong? You have any ideas?

I thought, that she wanted to know if she drinks too much water. Big mistake. See the mistake? If you don't or struggle to answer, then maybe you are a TSP too.

It took me some time to figure it out, but I think I got it. She did not want to know if she drinks too much water. She wanted to know if I think that she drinks too much.

She just wanted me to affirm that I accept her for drinking so much water.

When you dig deep enough you will realize, what she actually asked was: "Do you approve of my existence?".

This is at the fundamental reason for all social interactions between non-TSPs. This is why they need social interactions, because without them, they wouldn't know whether they exist.

To TSPs, this logic makes zero sense. When we are faced with questions or insecurities regarding our existence, we would NEVER even THINK about going to a cleaning lady for affirmations (nothing against cleaning ladies). Because what the fuck would they know about existence???? What we do instead is we study philosophy if we are more on the autism side, meditate when we are more on the HSP side and do both if we are hybrids.

In case this did not get clear enough: The reason why TSPs are here on this forum is because we are genetically unable to be satisfied with answers about our own existence from our cleaning ladies.

Or positively reframed: We are not stupid enough to believe that receiving gifts from our cleaning lady is sufficient to affirming our existence. 

Edited 3 hours ago by Cred

[Joseph Maynor]

But isn't this a kind of cope for having social insecurity?

[Cred]

10 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

But isn't this a kind of cope for having social insecurity?

Can you be more precise please?

Do you mean seeking out other TSPs? My claim is, this is the only truly healthy way for TSPs to bond. Practicing pickup on thousands of people is the real cope to me.

Edit: I'm thinking of changing the name again sorry. I really think I might be onto something here

Edited 4 hours ago by Cred

[Joseph Maynor]

3 minutes ago, Cred said:

Can you be more precise please?

Do you mean seeking out other TSPs? My claim is, this is the only truly healthy way for TSPs to bond. Practicing pickup on thousands of people is the real cope to me.

Edit: I'm thinking of changing the name again sorry. I really think I might be onto something here

I'm sorry.  I'm a highly intuitive person.  I pick up a sense of things by insight mostly.  

[Joshe]

Very interesting stuff. This belongs in my obsidian vault. 

2 hours ago, Cred said:

Expecting a TLP to implicitly understand this social symbolic language is like randomly starting to talk to some random person on the street in chinese and then being mad and confused, if they don't understand the fuck you're saying. And non-TSPs do that all the damn time! This leads TLPs to develop social anxiety, low self-esteem, etc.

Definitely a factor in the anxiety. We come to see our natural responses are detrimental to social cohesion, which causes stifling, so we adapt by staying silent, walking on eggshells, becoming resentful, etc. All we want to do is truth-track and deliver but there is very little demand for it. 

We've essentially opted out of the social games and just want to get down to business. 

2 hours ago, Cred said:

In case this did not get clear enough: The reason why TSPs are here on this forum is because we are genetically unable to be satisfied with answers about our own existence from our cleaning ladies.

Yes, there's a sort of courage and confidence in myself or something. Like, anytime I've been deeply sad or depressed (which is rare), there is literally nothing anyone can do or say to console me and I'm agitated when they try. I don't want hugs, talking, presence - I just want to be left alone to deal with my problem.

I'm curious, how many actual people do you know who fit this profile? 

[Joseph Maynor]

35 minutes ago, Joshe said:

Very interesting stuff. This belongs in my obsidian vault. 

Definitely a factor in the anxiety. We come to see our natural responses are detrimental to social cohesion, which causes stifling, so we adapt by staying silent, walking on eggshells, becoming resentful, etc. All we want to do is truth-track and deliver but there is very little demand for it. 

We've essentially opted out of the social games and just want to get down to business. 

Yes, there's a sort of courage and confidence in myself or something. Like, anytime I've been deeply sad or depressed (which is rare), there is literally nothing anyone can do or say to console me and I'm agitated when they try. I don't want hugs, talking, presence - I just want to be left alone to deal with my problem.

I'm curious, how many actual people do you know who fit this profile? 

I think this is right.  Make sure you're not making assumptions of a relationship that is not real.  You have to have a sense of what true friendship means.  

[Hojo]

I would rather make my own birthday or Christmas card then buy it. I like making presents if I care to do it over buying them.

Edited 2 hours ago by Hojo

[Yimpa]

1 minute ago, Hojo said:

I would rather make my own birthday or Christmas card then buy it. I like making presents if I care to do it over buying them.

I am afraid of birthdays cus it reminds me that people care about me, and I am allergic to 99% of people.

Christmas is fun cus Jesus is a fucking badass.

[Eskilon]

3 hours ago, Cred said:

When you dig deep enough you will realize, what she actually asked was: "Do you approve of my existence?".

This is at the fundamental reason for all social interactions between non-TSPs. This is why they need social interactions, because without them, they wouldn't know whether they exist.

To TSPs, this logic makes zero sense. When we are faced with questions or insecurities regarding our existence, we would NEVER even THINK about going to a cleaning lady for affirmations (nothing against cleaning ladies). Because what the fuck would they know about existence???? What we do instead is we study philosophy if we are more on the autism side, meditate when we are more on the HSP side and do both if we are hybrids.

In case this did not get clear enough: The reason why TSPs are here on this forum is because we are genetically unable to be satisfied with answers about our own existence from our cleaning ladies.

Or positively reframed: We are not stupid enough to believe that receiving gifts from our cleaning lady is sufficient to affirming our existence. 

Good insights, keep up with your posts!

Edited 2 hours ago by Eskilon

[Eskilon]

I might have a case that fit into this:

Once, a friend of mine started venting to me. She talked about all her problems and mental anguishes, while I listened carefully. Then, I consoled her a little but not too much, my approach was more on giving advice and giving her possible solutions to her problems. But then, guess? She didnt want that, she didnt want me trying to fix her problem, trying to actually understand it or give any advice; she only wanted me to confort her and give solace. She got upset with me and kind of regret venting to me. 

Some people don`t want solutions, they want solace and to people to affirm their existence like you said above. It`s crazy to think people are like this from my perspective lmao.

Consoling makes no sense and solves nothing for me, if I were in a bad situation I wouldnt want that, I want solutions and paths to explore to solve the problem at hand.

Edited 2 hours ago by Eskilon

[Joshe]

8 minutes ago, Eskilon said:

Once, a friend of mine started venting to me. She talked about all her problems and mental anguishes, while I listened carefully. Then, I consoled her a little but not too much, my approach was more on giving advice and giving her possible solutions to her problems. But then, guess? She didnt want that, she didnt want me trying to fix her problem or give any advice, she only wanted me to confort her and give solace. She got upset with me and kind of regret venting to me. 

Some people don`t want solutions, they want solace and to people to affirm their existence like you said above. It`s crazy to think people are like this from my perspective lmao.

This has been a very common theme in my life as well. Someone comes to me with a problem and I end up caring more about solving it than they do.

But the thing is, their brains aren't structured for my world. Trying to bring them into it is understandably uncomfortable, the same as it would be for me to come into theirs.

[Joshe]

@Cred 

I think "truth-trackers" or TSPs can often self-regulate through analysis itself, possibly as a result of high Need for Cognition and competency in using cognition to self-regulate. High NfC + high competency = analysis is soothing. Truth-tracking is the regulation.

TSPs regulate through analysis, so we go straight there. Non-TSPs need to regulate before analysis, so they stop somewhere we don't need to.

I'm not so sure they avoid truth-tracking because they prefer validation. It seems more like truth-tracking doesn't regulate them, so they reach for whatever does - which could be validation, but also venting, presence, reassurance, etc.

[Cred]

1 hour ago, Eskilon said:

Good insights, keep up with your posts!

Thank you so much for the encouragement!

I'm working on my Objective-Subjective-Sensitive-person model right now, and honestly, I think I'm cooking.

I am calling non-truth-sensitive people symbol-sensitive-people as of right now. I think it's an accurate name. In short, they don't care what it is or what it feels like, they only care about what it means (to other people) 

[Hojo]

@Yimpa if you were my friend irl I'd make you a Christmas card of Jesus hugging you.

[Cred]

23 minutes ago, Joshe said:

@Cred 

I think "truth-trackers" or TSPs can often self-regulate through analysis itself, possibly as a result of high Need for Cognition and competency in using cognition to self-regulate. High NfC + high competency = analysis is soothing. Truth-tracking is the regulation.

TSPs regulate through analysis, so we go straight there. Non-TSPs need to regulate before analysis, so they stop somewhere we don't need to.

I'm not so sure they avoid truth-tracking because they prefer validation. It seems more like truth-tracking doesn't regulate them, so they reach for whatever does - which could be validation, but also venting, presence, reassurance, etc.

Great observations! I want to add some nuance though.

You are using TSP as OSP (object-sensitive) which would be more precise.

The reason why OSPs cope through analysis is much deeper. The thing is, that OSP says nothing about intelligence. The defining feature about OSPs is not that they are competent, but that they are sensitive to and identify with the object. So low-IQ OSPs tend to be content playing with, collecting or organizing objects like toys for example.

When OSPs analyze (an object like a topic), they are affirming their personal mode of existence. This is why nobody here truly stops analyzing in order to find their existence in meditation, because only SSPs can do that. If you are a hybrid, then a hybrid approach works best, which is what you are currently doing anyway.

Edited 47 minutes ago by Cred

[Joshe]

18 minutes ago, Cred said:

Great observations! I want to add some nuance though.

You are using TSP as OSP (object-sensitive) which would be more precise.

The reason why OSPs cope through analysis is much deeper. The thing is, that OSP says nothing about intelligence. The defining feature about OSPs is not that they are competent, but that they are sensitive to and identify with the object. So low-IQ OSPs tend to be content playing with, collecting or organizing objects like toys for example.

When OSPs analyze (an object like a topic), they are affirming their personal mode of existence. This is why nobody here truly stops analyzing in order to find their existence in meditation, because only SSPs can do that. If you are a hybrid, then a hybrid approach works best, which is what you are currently doing anyway.

Nice!! Gonna have to take some time with this.