Spiritual teachers are delusional

[Opulence]

20 minutes ago, integral said:

 

 

Do you think they're delusional too?

[aurum]

Full body awareness is NOT awakening.

That's spirituality put into a materialist box.

[Carl-Richard]

8 minutes ago, aurum said:

Full body awareness is NOT awakening.

That's spirituality put into a materialist box.

It is more a physical process than what people think. The way you breathe, your posture, your level of bodily relaxation, are all tightly intertwined with your level of awareness.

[aurum]

57 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

It is more a physical process than what people think. The way you breathe, your posture, your level of bodily relaxation, are all tightly intertwined with your level of awareness.

No.

Awakening is not any physical feat of the body.

[Mellowmarsh]

What are spiritual teachers teaching, exactly?

[theleelajoker]

13 minutes ago, aurum said:

No.

Awakening is not any physical feat of the body.

Lol what a discussion. It's half full! No! It's half empty!

For me it's both - posture, breath, nervous system relaxation etc.

But also different way of thinking, perceiving, being aware, "knowing". Things that are beyond physical sensations.

[theleelajoker]

@integral

I agree with your general points re body awareness. That the normal state is feeling it and that we are typically conditioned to not feel and be disconnected. Trauma, stress, conditioning etc

Also agree that it leads to big problems - ego games, disease, unhappy was.

I base my answer on personal experience and on observation of others within my life.

Agreed that you need to feel the body to have access to your life. What I like to do is asking people if they're happy or content, or angry, of whatever. No matter the answer I like to follow up: "How do you know this"?

The percentage of people going into the body is low.

If they don't have access to body awareness, I sometimes follow up again, more directly: "Where in your body do you feel that XYZ?"

Here the replies differ greatly. The percentage of people then actually FEELING that body sensations? Low, typically there's a lot of resistance.

And I want to be honest: I'm training myself with the exact same method described above - I'm getting better, but it's a process..

 

@integral it seems to be that there's a strong emotional charge re this topic for you. How much you see this or how much you think that's no the case?

[aurum]

1 hour ago, theleelajoker said:

Lol what a discussion. It's half full! No! It's half empty!

For me it's both - posture, breath, nervous system relaxation etc.

Posture and breath work is fine. It's just not awakening.

The vast majority of things are not awakening. Tying my shoes is not awakening.

Edited Monday at 09:40 AM by aurum

[theleelajoker]

40 minutes ago, aurum said:

Posture and breath work is fine. It's just not awakening.

The vast majority of things are not awakening. Tying my shoes is not awakening.

What about cutting carrots 🥕? Is that awakening?

I'm sure there's at least one person in the world that says it is. Therefore it becomes valid, doesn't it? One subjective experience is enough to verify that it is 

Edited Monday at 10:21 AM by theleelajoker

[Eskilon]

The awakening police has arrived

[Eskilon]

11 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

I have mentioned before a interview of some guy who apparently managed to overcome (as in not experience it as suffering anymore if I remember correctly) the pain of trigeminal neuralgia through extreme mindfulness practice while he had it. Trigeminal neuralgia is considered one of the most painful conditions, causing pain some describe as 10/10. I’ve seen video of woman hysterically crying and shaking in pain. 
 

It’s something that I think about, if you transcend pain you have like unlocked a new level of freedom in life that’s like super human 

Damn, didnt know about this case you mentioned, interesting. 

And yeah, transcending pain seems to be one of the final challenges.

Which makes me think, if you are not afraid of anything anymore. Say that you understand fear deeply, doesnt that mean you groked pain too? I think if you dont have any fear whatsoever, pain aversion doesnt make any sense. It might be related.

Like say you are a criminal and you were sent to burn at the stake, if you dont react, not even a little bit to the situation, I think you groked pain at some level at least.

Edited Monday at 12:50 PM by Eskilon

[gettoefl]

18 minutes ago, Eskilon said:

Damn, didnt know about this case you mentioned, interesting. 

And yeah, transcending pain seems to be one of the final challenges.

Walking round without pain will kill you. Your body will attempt to press through seats and push through walls with no mechanism to stop it. Careful what you wish for. There are YouTube videos of people born without pain receptors and how precarious and perilous their life is. Pain is good.

[Eskilon]

21 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

Walking round without pain will kill you. Your body will attempt to press through seats and push through walls with no mechanism to stop it. Careful what you wish for. There are YouTube videos of people born without pain receptors and how precarious and perilous their life is. Pain is good.

No, I mean you can feel the pain, but not react to it and not get overwhelmed by it no matter how intense.

Like when you know you are horny but decide not to react or act on it.

[gettoefl]

12 minutes ago, Eskilon said:

No, I mean you can feel the pain, but not react to it and not get overwhelmed by it no matter how intense.

Like when you know you are horny but decide not to react or act on it.

This is repression. It finds a way to emerge. Pain and horniness are fine. It is wanting them otherwise that is problematic.

[Eskilon]

2 hours ago, gettoefl said:

This is repression. It finds a way to emerge. Pain and horniness are fine. It is wanting them otherwise that is problematic.

Not repression but conquering it.

Pain will emerge, but you will remain undisturbed. That is what transcendence means.

Edited Monday at 03:59 PM by Eskilon

[ExploringReality]

Any fine teacher who's done hardcore psychedelics is  worth an ear

[integral]

10 hours ago, theleelajoker said:

@integral it seems to be that there's a strong emotional charge re this topic for you. How much you see this or how much you think that's no the case?

There's two parts to my writing style, the first is intentional controversy to spice it up, which just happens automatically and I probably go too forward with it, the second is I'm not naturally in a humour or play state, sort of robotic autism is the direction. Comes extremely direct and blunt. lol

The topic is more like "PEOPLE CANT FEEL THERE BODIES?" wtf are people doing???

Without the body Everything is dysfunctional. And I contribute a lot of of my insights from body awareness as grounding. I don't deny its extremely useful for insights and awakening. From my experience with my own body and analysis and questioning others, not aware of breath and body in a full way is a neurotic state.

Maybe you could get away with really good awareness of the breath for grounding

Quote

And I want to be honest: I'm training myself with the exact same method described above - I'm getting better, but it's a process.

Nice I'm interested to know for people who struggle with full body awareness and who are practising, what's their main issue and what kind of practice are they doing?

Like can you feel your breath, your hands and your feet at the same time or do you lose one part of your body if you try to focus on another and it's hard to juggle both at the same time?

Edited Monday at 06:29 PM by integral

[aurum]

8 hours ago, theleelajoker said:

Therefore it becomes valid, doesn't it? One subjective experience is enough to verify that it is 

No, because self-deception still exists.

[Carl-Richard]

14 hours ago, theleelajoker said:

Lol what a discussion. It's half full! No! It's half empty!

For me it's both - posture, breath, nervous system relaxation etc.

But also different way of thinking, perceiving, being aware, "knowing". Things that are beyond physical sensations.

I'm saying it's both. Mind-body dualism is an outdated view. It's always intertwined.

After my first awakening, I stopped having problems with suspension headaches and tight back/neck/shoulder muscles (extremely rare that I have those now). A lot of tension and aches and pain arise from unconscious and inelegant bodily movements. It's like you're moving your body in such a reckless way that you hurt yourself. And when you don't have the ability to relax and heal, you keep hurting yourself and it becomes a chronic pain problem (this is likely the cause of many "Subjective Health Complaints" (SHC), i.e. problems that have physical symptoms but not clear physiological causes. The causes are "physio-mechanical", behavioral).

Edited Monday at 10:40 PM by Carl-Richard

[integral]

Are gymnasts and athletes conscious of there entire body at the same time?