P. Ralston on unnecessary suffering - avoidance?

[Inliytened1]

On 12/30/2025 at 10:58 AM, Hello1 said:

I'm listening to interviews with Peter Ralston, by Leo but also by other people.

He says things like - "You're doing it! Just stop doing it!" - concerning negative emotions and "unnecessary suffering". From all he says it seems like I should just skip negative emotions. Isn't it the case that I should actually feel through the negative emotions and not avoid them? Isn't avoidance a negative habit that avoidant people to?

Someone explain to me the difference if there is any. 

Many thanks

It goes full circle.  Suffering is spiritual growth.  All roads lead to Rome. That which seeks to avoid suffering is the ego but in that avoidance the ego meets suffering.  Its extremely counterintuitive.   Embrace it.

Edited January 1 by Inliytened1

[Breakingthewall]

5 hours ago, cetus said:

Gotta love that chuckle after he makes a funny.

Me same, I recognize the artist there; I imagine him with several advisors saying: "Well, I think a little shorter, and raise your hands in that endearing gesture you make." "Yes, yes, like that, let the turban move." "No! Too strident, softer, more... enlightened." "Exactly! You've got it!" And they high-five.

[theleelajoker]

2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Me same, I recognize the artist there; I imagine him with several advisors saying: "Well, I think a little shorter, and raise your hands in that endearing gesture you make." "Yes, yes, like that, let the turban move." "No! Too strident, softer, more... enlightened." "Exactly! You've got it!" And they high-five.

Sometimes I also believe to recognize the cosmic joke

Maybe the magic in life is to recognize it every time? 

[Breakingthewall]

7 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

It goes full circle.  Suffering is spiritual growth.  All roads lead to Rome. That which seeks to avoid suffering is the ego but in that avoidance the ego meets suffering.  Its extremely counterintuitive.   Embrace it.

There is something that could be called the end of suffering "by default". When the ego functions in a contracted state, as it does in almost all cases, there is constant suffering every second; it's just that one doesn't realize it because one is accustomed to it.

Life becomes a projection into the future, and every moment must be filled with content. This is because the mind is limited by energetic barriers made of fear and an absolute need to be accepted into the human group.

What we call enlightenment is the opening of that framework. Energy no longer bounces off the energetic walls of lack and fear but flows constantly and without limit. The body relaxes, and the mind is emptied of need and fear. There is no definition, and the only knowledge is that you are, since this is constantly perceived. Then death is seen like not something "outside", not an absolute limit, because limits are impossible, since you are. That's everything.

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Joseph Maynor said:

I depends on what kind of artist, no?

An artist at influencing, Sadhguru is a genius at what he does. The problem is having the status of a demigod, knowledgeable about the 84 universes, capable of holding his breath for a year and making trees bleed. But it seems he sees that as necessary to reach people. He understands Enlightenment well, at least conceptually, and what he does at his foundation seems positive in all senses. 

But of course, one begins to tolerate certain lies as innocent tricks, and in the end things go wrong.

Edited January 1 by Breakingthewall

[theleelajoker]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

There is something that could be called the end of suffering "by default". When the ego functions in a contracted state, as it does in almost all cases, there is constant suffering every second; it's just that one doesn't realize it because one is accustomed to it.

Life becomes a projection into the future, and every moment must be filled with content. This is because the mind is limited by energetic barriers made of fear and an absolute need to be accepted into the human group.

What we call enlightenment is the opening of that framework. Energy no longer bounces off the energetic walls of lack and fear but flows constantly and without limit. The body relaxes, and the mind is emptied of need and fear. There is no definition, and the only knowledge is that you are, since this is constantly perceived. Then death is seen like not something "outside", not an absolute limit, because limits are impossible, since you are. That's everything.

I like that description. Well said IMO.

The contracted state is truly spectacular once it can be observed from the outside. And it's incredible how much that mode of operation is really the standard mode for most people most of the time. I still do it,  but I get better at noticing and stoping it. 

It's quite simple in concept - a thought is always a limit and a separation, picking a particular time frame and a particular assessment of any situation expressed in language. This is "A" or "B" or "C", thereby neglecting that it can also "D" or "E" etc.  

And since it's a limitation, it goes along with a somatic correlation - the nervous system gets tense and contracted, too. 

The fear and lack you mention fits perfectly:  Since I limit my perception of reality to "A", I lack for instance "B". Or I fear reality will be "C", because I want it or be "D". 

In all cases - thought, limit, resistance, suffering. That's the formula as I see it for now.

Even if it was a different context, I love the Kierkegaard quote: "If you name me, you negate me. You negate all others things I could possibly be".

Question is - what to do?

IME the key to unlocking freedom is  presence. Only when you are present, you can notice that you create and apply this formula. And then it's practicing your personal method leaves this mode of operating and go to something different you prefer.

@Breakingthewall what is your POV why the mind wants to fill every moment with content? Because of perceived lack that wants to be filled? I agree and I notice it, the need and the resistance to silence. Curios how you see it

Edited January 1 by theleelajoker

[Rishabh R]

8 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

It goes full circle.  Suffering is spiritual growth.  All roads lead to Rome. That which seeks to avoid suffering is the ego but in that avoidance the ego meets suffering.  Its extremely counterintuitive.   Embrace it.

This is spot on. Thanks for sharing this perspective. Embracing suffering is one of the most necessary pillars of emotional regulation.

[Breakingthewall]

21 minutes ago, theleelajoker said:

all cases - thought, limit, resistance, suffering. That's the formula as I see it for now.

I see it differently ordererd. First, there's the ontological need for permanence and belonging. Thought doesn't create this; it's inherent in being alive as a human being. This ontological need could be defined as an energetic barrier, a field of reality that permeates your entire being. Therefore, your thoughts, your physical energy, your movement, all are filtered through this vibration. It's absolutely impossible to escape it at will, because willpower arises from this internal vibrational field

21 minutes ago, theleelajoker said:

the key to unlocking freedom is  presence. Only when you are present, you can notice that you create and apply this formula. And then it's practicing your personal method leaves this mode of operating and go to something different you prefer.

I'my experience something else is needed. When I meditated and took small doses of psychedelics, LSD or THC, I would sometimes find myself facing an absolute abyss. Reality was no longer temporal continuity, but rather me, a perceiving center, perceiving an empty void without bottom. This was intimidating because the mind seeks foundation, continuity, a timeline. So you have to look fearlessly into the abyss, into absolute death, and desire to merge into it, to dissolve into the void without hope or purpose. 

Then it happened that I wasn't looking into the abyss, but rather that I was the abyss. At first it was absolutely horrible, because the self hates the lack of foundation, but the mental suffering that was always present drove me to seek the abyss again and again. At a certain point, it happens that you are without edge, content, bottom, or movement, and that is totality, that is everything.

Then, little by little, your system reconfigures itself. You realize that the contraction isn't just mental; it's in your body. In every micro-movement or breath, it's a field that permeates everything. It gradually loosens, and at a certain point, being without borders or foundation is the norm. It's a kind of solipsism, not because others are imaginary, but because you are limitless. But that's where everything lies; it's the totality

Edited January 1 by Breakingthewall

[theleelajoker]

31 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I see it differently ordererd. First, there's the ontological need for permanence and belonging. Thought doesn't create this; it's inherent in being alive as a human being. This ontological need could be defined as an energetic barrier, a field of reality that permeates your entire being. Therefore, your thoughts, your physical energy, your movement, all are filtered through this vibration. It's absolutely impossible to escape it at will, because willpower arises from this internal vibrational field

Yes, I agree.

31 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I'my experience something else is needed. When I meditated and took small doses of psychedelics, LSD or THC, I would sometimes find myself facing an absolute abyss. Reality was no longer temporal continuity, but rather me, a perceiving center, perceiving an empty void without bottom. This was intimidating because the mind seeks foundation, continuity, a timeline. So you have to look fearlessly into the abyss, into absolute death, and desire to merge into it, to dissolve into the void without hope or purpose. 

Then it happened that I wasn't looking into the abyss, but rather that I was the abyss. At first it was absolutely horrible, because the self hates the lack of foundation, but the mental suffering that was always present drove me to seek the abyss again and again. At a certain point, it happens that you are without edge, content, bottom, or movement, and that is totality, that is everything.

Then, little by little, your system reconfigures itself. You realize that the contraction isn't just mental; it's in your body. In every micro-movement or breath, it's a field that permeates everything. It gradually loosens, and at a certain point, being without borders or foundation is the norm. It's a kind of solipsism, not because others are imaginary, but because you are limitless. But that's where everything lies; it's the totality

Ok that sounds pretty close to an experience I had during a Vipassana retreat - but I was scared AF and did not go all the way into "nothing", or the abyss. For me it felt like "dying", or how I imagine it. I felt like I leave this reality and I was afraid I won't come back. 

I know now in hindsight that this was a breaking point for my structure and the beginning of a transformation process.

I guess I know that I have to do  Same as you, go back again, but follow through with the intent of dissolving instead of being afraid. 

BTW, the content of this topic, and the experience you describe reminds me A LOT of the documentary series by Daniel Schmidt. Inner worlds, outer worlds and Samadhi. If I remember correctly, he uses the same term of looking into the abyss without any hope. 

Edited January 1 by theleelajoker

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, theleelajoker said:

what is your POV why the mind wants to fill every moment with content? Because of perceived lack that wants to be filled? I agree and I notice it, the need and the resistance to silence. Curios how you see it

In a contracted state, the mind is constantly working because it needs to maintain its identity. This process is relentless, without pauses. The mind cannot stop, and it is futile to try to make it stop. The entire system would panic, and the mind would become even more active.

In an open state, you recognize yourself constantly for what you are. The mind continues to process information, but at a different frequency. It's not maintaining an identity but simply functioning as the organism it is. Stopping thoughts for a while is easy, but for a long time, it's very difficult. The mind thinks like the heart beats; that's what it does: construct structures. The question is the direction of that movement: is it to maintain identity or to understand, anticipate, plan, and so on

[Inliytened1]

5 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

There is something that could be called the end of suffering "by default". When the ego functions in a contracted state, as it does in almost all cases, there is constant suffering every second; it's just that one doesn't realize it because one is accustomed to it.

Life becomes a projection into the future, and every moment must be filled with content. This is because the mind is limited by energetic barriers made of fear and an absolute need to be accepted into the human group.

What we call enlightenment is the opening of that framework. Energy no longer bounces off the energetic walls of lack and fear but flows constantly and without limit. The body relaxes, and the mind is emptied of need and fear. There is no definition, and the only knowledge is that you are, since this is constantly perceived. Then death is seen like not something "outside", not an absolute limit, because limits are impossible, since you are. That's everything.

Actual enlightenment is the transcendence of suffering and of all worldly desires and fears. Not conceptual enlightenment of which you speak.  Yes conceptually you can get there too. I'm sure with your wisdom, though not enlightened, you have reached a state of non-suffering.  But to really transcend the fear of death and what lies beyond only spiritual enlightenment (actual awakening) can resolve.  

Nevertheless- one should not seek the transcendence of suffering.  As you point out in embracing it one can ride the wive.  Suffering is a natural progression.   There have been many who have used suffering as a path to enlightenment.  It is as natural as the air you breathe. 

Edited January 1 by Inliytened1

[theleelajoker]

On 1.1.2026 at 3:58 PM, Breakingthewall said:

In a contracted state, the mind is constantly working because it needs to maintain its identity. This process is relentless, without pauses. The mind cannot stop, and it is futile to try to make it stop. The entire system would panic, and the mind would become even more active.

In an open state, you recognize yourself constantly for what you are. The mind continues to process information, but at a different frequency. It's not maintaining an identity but simply functioning as the organism it is. Stopping thoughts for a while is easy, but for a long time, it's very difficult. The mind thinks like the heart beats; that's what it does: construct structures. The question is the direction of that movement: is it to maintain identity or to understand, anticipate, plan, and so on

Good points. When reading it, I immediately could see scenes in front of my eyes where what you described happened to me or others. The panic when believe structures are questioned for instance. Or the identity stuff. Who am I, if I leave aside all my learned behavior? No wonder Ram Dass talks about becoming "nobody"

Really like they last sentence: "The question is the direction of that movement: is it to maintain identity or to understand, anticipate, plan, and so on"

IME, that's really the thing. Like directing a flow of water in a river.

[AION]

Ralston is the Yoda of our time. His teaching is so simple and thus easy to digest but at the same time the consumer can misconstruct his work so easily. That is why I always advice to do the exercises instead of trying to wing it because that is how you get it ass backwards. Avoidance of states is the exact opposite of what he is preaching. 

It is important to study basic psychology too when you are doing spirituality. Because I see a lot of people doing spiritual bypassing and that just fucks them up and creates both mental and physical diseases. One can't transcend the hero's journey of the Ego. One can only walk through it, ace it and then let go of your human story line.

The order is this. First build a healthy strong ego (some might call it big ego) and then deconstruct it. Bypassing this process will end up making you look like Frankenstein aka a detached freak. But it is also important to say that everybody's construction to deconstruction process might look different.

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, theleelajoker said:

The question is the direction of that movement: is it to maintain identity or to understand, anticipate, plan, and so on"

IME, that's really the thing. Like directing a flow of water in a river.

On 1/1/2026 at 1:08 PM, theleelajoker said:

 

The problem is that it's not something you can do at will. Just as you can't stop the flow of thought, you can't stop constructing identity because your system operates at that frequency. If you try, you jump to another identity, God or whatever.

The only way is to access expanded states in meditation little by little, day by day. The first time this happens, it could lasts two seconds and is very shocking; it's as if reality becomes fluid, uncompartmentalized, limitless. It's not something mystical, or well, everything is mystical if you want.

It's a different way for the mind to operate, a mind that has become accustomed throughout life to needing solid anchors. These anchors must be constantly maintained; without them, balance is at risk. It's not something you can do in a moment, but after a period of practice. Perhaps two or three years of serious meditation and psychedelics with the goal of liberation, not understanding or transcendence. You have to aim for rupture, not construction.

[theleelajoker]

22 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

The problem is that it's not something you can do at will. Just as you can't stop the flow of thought, you can't stop constructing identity because your system operates at that frequency. If you try, you jump to another identity, God or whatever.

Yes, it works for a while but I see what you mean. 

Quote

The only way is to access expanded states in meditation little by little, day by day. The first time this happens, it could lasts two seconds and is very shocking; it's as if reality becomes fluid, uncompartmentalized, limitless. It's not something mystical, or well, everything is mystical if you want.

It's a different way for the mind to operate, a mind that has become accustomed throughout life to needing solid anchors. These anchors must be constantly maintained; without them, balance is at risk. It's not something you can do in a moment, but after a period of practice. Perhaps two or three years of serious meditation and psychedelics with the goal of liberation, not understanding or transcendence. You have to aim for rupture, not construction.

I know that feeling of reality becoming fluid. Was very strong after meditation retreats. 

Your other points also resonate. It's like when you learn riding a bike, or in the end like riding it freehand. 

[Breakingthewall]

 

3 hours ago, theleelajoker said:

It's like when you learn riding a bike, or in the end like riding it freehand. 

There's another essential point. At a certain moment, you realize that contraction isn't just a mental state; it's a global energetic configuration embedded in your body, in your posture, your breathing, in every muscle. For you, it was a normal state, but you begin to see the tension, and it becomes increasingly noticeable.

At one point, it feels like you have an illness or that something serious is about to happen. This tension gradually releases, and it's essential that it does, since contraction wasn't just an idea but a way of being. Once you shift phases, the fluid state seems completely normal, and the previous state seems impossible.

[theleelajoker]

5 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

 

There's another essential point. At a certain moment, you realize that contraction isn't just a mental state; it's a global energetic configuration embedded in your body, in your posture, your breathing, in every muscle. For you, it was a normal state, but you begin to see the tension, and it becomes increasingly noticeable.

At one point, it feels like you have an illness or that something serious is about to happen. This tension gradually releases, and it's essential that it does, since contraction wasn't just an idea but a way of being. Once you shift phases, the fluid state seems completely normal, and the previous state seems impossible.

That's a pretty accurate description of my experience.

The recognition of the previous state and how normal it was - that's is really strange. And for me it correlates with seeing this tension more clearly in others.

 

[Jirh]

Distinguish suffering from pain. Pain is a feeling and a sensation. Suffering is a thought.

While pain is inevitable in life, suffering remains unnecessary.

Suffering is just a perspective, though admittedly a pressingly convincing one.