High Achievers = Big Ego?

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, Butters said:

@Leo Gura do you believe that everyone who voted for Trump has a big ego? 

No.

Voting is mostly just conformity, ignorance, and bias.

Edited 4 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Ishanga]

11 minutes ago, Butters said:

@Ishanga very nice. So perhaps then the correct statement is: 

High achiever = Big Ego IF they fully identify as such, and never take off the mask. 

But again, in the OP I said why can't it be equal across the board? Leo says there is a correlation. 

Perhaps the problem is the feedback loop of big succes. 

Yes I think so,, We are meant to test our boundaries all the time, to go beyond where we are right now, but if we attach to the outcome, the success, then that may lead us off course if we identify with it as "This is what I am", identity is Ego, and if You can't take of the mask of Ego then trouble arises..

Stallone talked about this, and the first 3 Rocky movies are all about this, in Rocky 1 he was just a humbled down man with no chance for anything, then an opportunity comes and he takes it, after the 1st one notice the changes in Rocky, he wants more, not satisfied with the first fight with Apollo even though he did something no one else ever did, then watch Rocky 3 this is about dealing with Success and what it does too You, he need to get his "Eye of the Tiger" back, to do that he totally transformed himself, a great example of the problems with Success and how Ego arises.. Those movies reflect what happened to Stallone in his personal life...

Edited 4 hours ago by Ishanga

[Butters]

@Leo Gura is the world better of with a big ego stage Yellow leader compared to a low ego Blue group-thinker Trump voter? 

We use ego as almost a negative in this thread, but is it? And if not then why you keep pointing out big ego?

Edit: my question doesn't really make sense. I am now confusing achievement with ego 😐

Edited 4 hours ago by Butters

[Leo Gura]

@Butters Ego is a very complex topic so there is no simplistic answer here.

There are big pros and big cons with big ego.

Edited 4 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Schizophonia]

14 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

Tate accomplished fame and fortune which the Ego luvs, that guy is a total Ego maniac narcissist lol its so obvious and ppl luv him because they look up to ppl like that as they see them as powerful and in control but its a disempowering persona and way to be for sure, those charges against and his bro are not there for nothing, its completely crazy how ppl are attracted to types like him, just goes to show how nuts our society has become!

A cam business with girls that has earned him legal complaints, and a sale of "online formation"...

Narcissism doesn't work, and if it does, it's usually a scam or a crappy business that worked out by sheer luck for the person involved; selling training courses, dropshipping, YouTube videos, sometimes even selling drugs (lol); always easy money.

If you want to produce something of quality, something you'll truly be proud of, it requires embracing a love for the object, for a job well done, which is the opposite of narcissistic delusions.

 

[Schizophonia]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Butters Ego is very complex topic and there is no simplistic answer here.

There are big pros and big cons with big ego.

Otherwise just read some solid sociology or even psychoanalysis.

[Leo Gura]

@Schizophonia You are lost in pedantry, missing the larger point of the examples.

[AerisVahnEphelia]

No one is even clear on what ego means.

All humans have an ego or they would be dead.

You're talking about abrasively signaling one's false sense of pride; as ego.

 

Edited 4 hours ago by AerisVahnEphelia

[Butters]

8 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

If you want to produce something of quality, something you'll truly be proud of, it requires embracing a love for the object, for a job well done, which is the opposite of narcissistic delusions.

Externalizing love fits perfectly in the narcissistic mind, that's literally their whole psychology in a nutshell. This applies to all lower stages. 

[Schizophonia]

1 minute ago, Butters said:

Externalizing love fits perfectly in the narcissistic mind, that's literally their whole psychology in a nutshell. This applies to all lower stages. 

?

No, the very definition of narcissism is the excessive love of one's own image.

[Ishanga]

5 minutes ago, AerisVahnEphelia said:

No one is even clear on what ego means.

All humans have an ego or they would be dead.

You're talking about abrasively signaling one's false sense of pride; as ego.

 

They wouldn't be dead loi.  They would just not be functioning well in a society, I think in severe cases of autism that sort of person is egoless, non existent hence why they cannot relate to their parents or anyone...

[Ishanga]

15 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

A cam business with girls that has earned him legal complaints, and a sale of "online formation"...

Narcissism doesn't work, and if it does, it's usually a scam or a crappy business that worked out by sheer luck for the person involved; selling training courses, dropshipping, YouTube videos, sometimes even selling drugs (lol); always easy money.

If you want to produce something of quality, something you'll truly be proud of, it requires embracing a love for the object, for a job well done, which is the opposite of narcissistic delusions.

 

Tate is a total narcissist full stop, he luv's himself more than anything, and goes out to make others luv him too which enhances his ego and narcissism problem.. Loving Yourself is also a form of insanity and creates more ego problems!

[Butters]

8 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

?

No, the very definition of narcissism is the excessive love of one's own image.

That is not the definition. If that was the case they'd just sit at home with a mirror. 

Lower stages have a lack of self love. As self love increases, ego dissolves. 

Edited 4 hours ago by Butters

[Schizophonia]

23 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Schizophonia You are lost in pedantry, missing the larger point of the examples.

No you hypothesized that strong egos accomplish more, and I propose the antithesis: not only the difference between what a weak ego and a strong ego produce will be qualitative rather than quantitative, but a weak ego will actually produce denser things because the weaker an ego is the more it can dedicate its attention to dense external objects.

Symbols capture attention, leaving less for the imagination of the self; this is what Lacan would call the supremacy of the symbolic order.

And to support my example, I would say that the people you mentioned don't produce anything particularly beautiful or intelligent, and some are even heirs to wealthy families (Trump, Musk, and that Saudi prince already; I don't know about the others, but probably more or less).

Resisting the Nazis and enduring torture like Jean Moulin requires very little ego.
Spending decades working on nuclear fission like Marie Curie requires little ego.
Being a great doctor/surgeon, sleeping poorly and constantly using caffeine to learn, and later caring for patients in a university hospital requires little ego.
Being a great philosopher who produces many concepts—I won't list them, I have too many in my head—requires little ego.

Being a good horseman or gardening and creating beautiful things requires little ego.

All of these are truly accomplishments; beautiful and intelligent things, or simply things that make oneself and others happier.

All the people you mentioned are, once again, heirs and/or swindlers, often with legal problems, and/or people who produce "meh" stuff that only losers consume.

You haven't enriched your own thesis or even accepted mine; you've simply launched an ad hominem attack, calling me pedantic.

Which is probably true to some extent since you find it logical to projecting that onto me, but that doesn't invalidate what I'm saying.

Edited 4 hours ago by Schizophonia

[Ishanga]

19 minutes ago, Butters said:

That is not the definition. If that was the case they'd just sit at home with a mirror. 

Lower stages have a lack of self love. As self love increases, ego dissolves. 

Self love enhances Ego, as Love requires Two, one to do the loving and the thing being loved, unless I am misunderstanding what You mean by Self Love.. 

Self judgement of any kind, self respect, self hate, self esteem is egoic in nature, its You judging You, and that means two, but are You two within Yourself? If You are then a psychological problem is arising, it may become more than two within You and maybe in a year or three there will be 20 within You and so forth..

Just be Peaceful and Blissful of Your own nature, then everything will be fine, don't self judge imo!

[NewKidOnTheBlock]

I don't think Tate belongs to that particuliar list even remotely since he is essentially a criminal, but he has achieved a lot, albeit mostly through scamming, lying and deceit; but also partly throught genuine hard work. Thing is, if our society had some sort of collective moral compass and things between men and women were going smoothly and comunities stayed intact, people like him wouldn't be listened to or given a platform, he would have to find some other ways to steal money from people

[Schizophonia]

12 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

Tate is a total narcissist full stop, he luv's himself more than anything, and goes out to make others luv him too which enhances his ego and narcissism problem.. Loving Yourself is also a form of insanity and creates more ego problems!

You're right, that doesn't contradict what I said.

11 minutes ago, Butters said:

That is not the definition. If that was the case they'd just sit at home with a mirror. 

Lower stages have a lack of self love. As self love increases, ego dissolves. 

Narcissism is excessive self-love; self-love in the sense that attention continually shifts to the most primitive objects of identification, such as your body, your history and so on instead of extending to other objects

The problem with narcissism is not self-love itself  but a hostile relationship with "external" objects.

Your self-love story is more true for neurosis

You're joking about your mirror story but a narcissist is really like that lol, they like to look at themselves in the mirror, telling themselves how handsome and superior they are (just like me😏) etc.

[Ishanga]

1 minute ago, NewKidOnTheBlock said:

I don't think Tate belongs to that particuliar list even remotely since he is essentially a criminal, but he has achieved a lot, albeit mostly through scamming, lying and deceit; but also partly throught genuine hard work. Thing is, if our society had some sort of collective moral compass and things between men and women were going smoothly and comunities stayed intact, people like him wouldn't be listened to or given a platform, he would have to find some other ways to steal money from people

Egoic/Narcississtic ppl have tons of Energy, If You thought and believed You were the Actual God, would that not give You endless energy? So in that aspect it is good for You, but overall if You think You are the one and only God, what about the rest of Us? You'd probably look down on us if that was the case which is not so empowering..

[NewKidOnTheBlock]

8 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

Egoic/Narcississtic ppl have tons of Energy, If You thought and believed You were the Actual God, would that not give You endless energy? So in that aspect it is good for You, but overall if You think You are the one and only God, what about the rest of Us? You'd probably look down on us if that was the case which is not so empowering..

Isn't that what people in here are kind of supposed to discover, supposedly? LOL anyway, yeah everyone is different and some men like him become sociopaths throught upbringing, I kinda think that he even knows that about himself since now he's trying to portray a more positive self image of himself, he's delving into influencer boxing maybe to keep himself occupied, cause there'd be no other reason I reckon

Edited 3 hours ago by NewKidOnTheBlock

[Joseph Maynor]

How much energy does it take to do spirituality for years and years?  Isn't the energy the same, but only how it is directed different?  It seems the energy is the same, only the subject matter to which it is directed is different.  Think about sitting under a tree meditating all day.  Interestingly enough, that takes a lot of energy in the discipline it takes to do that.  Elon Musk wouldn't have the energy to sit under a tree and meditate all day long.