A few thoughts on your metaphysical claims, Leo

[Breakingthewall]

23 minutes ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

understand that in a total state, you'd be ripped out of all desire because you'd see everything as it is, perfect, whole

That's not because that reason; it's because forms don't arise based on a divine plan, they arise through structural coherence with the totality of infinite forms.

If you reach a state of total enlightenment, you can't do anything paranormal at all; the only change you can make is in your inner energetic structure. And not even that; it's the other way around: the change in your energetic structure is what can make enlightenment happen.

36 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

Absolute means ALL, Love, Hate, Anger,

Really is more nothing, in the sense that Imagine mixing all of that together and expanding it without limit. What remains is a bottomless, boundless void. It's total potential, but the absolute itself isn't something. If it is something, it's because it's not yet absolute. It's simply openness. 

If you think about it, it's impossible to grasp. If you take a psychedelic and your mind isn't prepared, the experience will be either horrific nihilism or your mind will find a way to avoid confronting it. If your mind has released enough baggage, total openness is total freedom, and it's perceived as totality, but it's not a will, entity, intelligence, divinity. All that are possibilities that arise, but not the absolute. The only final realization is the openess to the absolute, and for that our mind need to be free of the need of "something". It's not easy, but could be not so difficult if it were clear, not a mess. 

[Natasha Tori Maru]

2 hours ago, Monster Energy said:

You’re right that what I described overlaps with wisdom, but wisdom without discernment is just pleasant sentiment. Discernment is the part that keeps us honest. It’s what stops insight from turning into ideology, and experience from turning into dogma.

If anything, wisdom grows out of discernment, not the other way around.

 

Discernment is inherent and assumed with when speaking about wisdom. Like wheels are assumed when talking about a car...

@Xonas Pitfall are you speaking about siddhis?

Edited 9 hours ago by Natasha Tori Maru

[Xonas Pitfall]

3 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

@Xonas Pitfall are you speaking about siddhis?

Possibly yes, thank you, I'll look into it! It’d be cool to have a forum thread where people can do scientific-like research/exploration and see if they can influence reality in some ways once in a heightened state of consciousness.

[Xonas Pitfall]

13 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

That's not because that reason; it's because forms don't arise based on a divine plan, they arise through structural coherence with the totality of infinite forms.

If you reach a state of total enlightenment, you can't do anything paranormal at all; the only change you can make is in your inner energetic structure. And not even that; it's the other way around: the change in your energetic structure is what can make enlightenment happen.

Yes! I understand that in the total state, everything is just pure emptiness, the Absolute. When I said everything is perfect and whole, I meant that it's all just 'is', nothing, pure emptiness, pure isness, coherence emerges and stays, and things that unify exist, while those that don’t simply fall away. You can use whatever words resonate most with you to describe it!

My question is: since we clearly have states of God-realization and enlightenment where people are still alive and survive, and we accept those as valid insights, even though they technically didn’t 'relinquish all desire,' even the desire to not exist, then it seems plausible to assume that you could attain states of infinity where you can at least perform some physical manipulation. Your will would still be intact, and even if it’s not the egoic type of will, it could be something more like a curiosity-driven will.

Edited 9 hours ago by Xonas Pitfall

[Natasha Tori Maru]

2 minutes ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

Possibly yes, thank you, I'll look into it! It’d be cool to have a forum thread where people can do scientific-like research/exploration and see if they can influence reality in some ways once in a heightened state of consciousness.

Definitely look into it... It appears you have encountered this natural logical conclusion in your contemplations. Siddhis echo this in reality 

You might enjoy the eastern view that overlaps your enquiry ❤️

[Ishanga]

6 minutes ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

Possibly yes, thank you, I'll look into it! It’d be cool to have a forum thread where people can do scientific-like research/exploration and see if they can influence reality in some ways once in a heightened state of consciousness.

They already have for many decades now, this is just one example, Swami Rama, stopped his heart, made radical temp changes to different parts of his hand, influenced a magnetic needle I think, other things as well, and this was years and years ago, for sure other test have been done on others..

These are experts yes with many years of Sadhana behind them, it just goes to show us what the Potentials are that are available to Us, it doesn't mean we all have to have the ability to stop our heart, but at the very least we can control our basic experience of Life, Peacefulness vs Anxiousness/Depression and so forth, which for many makes all the difference in Life!!!

 

[Mellowmarsh]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

That is not the truth though. That is a human game.

The truth is INFINITY. Period.

 

“Time and space keep me here, but I am everywhere all at once. Take me away to the infinite spaces. Let me see more light, the layers and dimensions of me. Infinity is the frozen frame exploding into infinite frames...”

 

“Our very nature is truth. It is because of truth that we exist, and it is to truth that we return. It is true, everything about you as you are this echo of infinity. The heartbeat of nature is in you, and you are a pattern of truth as love beats through you.”

 

“Infinity cannot be divided against itself.”

 

 

 

[Monster Energy]

17 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Discernment is inherent and assumed with when speaking about wisdom. Like wheels are assumed when talking about a car...

@Xonas Pitfall are you speaking about siddhis?

I see what you mean, but I’m drawing a distinction because I think it matters. Wisdom may include discernment, but they don’t function the same way. One orbits insight, the other tests it.

I’m just speaking to that testing part.

 

[DLH]

19 hours ago, Monster Energy said:

Okay, Leo. I want to try to explain why I hesitate with some of your conclusions, not to dismiss them but to understand the path you take from experience to philosophy.

I absolutely believe your experiences are genuine. It’s clear you’re not making them up. What I’m more curious about is how you interpret them.

You often describe moments of total certainty, and I know how powerful that can feel. But that’s exactly why I’m cautious, because the sensation of absolute clarity isn’t rare. It can come from ecstasy, psychedelics, psychosis, meditation, euphoria, depression… basically any extreme mental state.

The feeling itself isn’t the issue. It’s the step that comes after.

The leap from “I experienced this” to “this is how the entire universe works.”

That’s where I can’t quite follow, because experiences are private while your conclusions are universal. It’s like going from a diary entry to a physics textbook without anything in between.

When you say “consciousness is everything,” it sometimes sounds as if your personal sense of totality has to be the fundamental structure of reality. But how do you know it isn’t just the mind doing what the mind always does when pushed to its limit: creating a sense of meaning, coherence, narrative?

That’s one of the mind’s most basic functions.

I’m not saying your interpretation is wrong. I’m just saying it is an interpretation.

For me there’s a difference between a powerful experience and a theory about reality, and that’s where I wonder if you’re jumping too quickly. Not out of bad intention, but because the experience itself is so overwhelming that it almost demands a cosmological explanation.

I can respect that. I just need more steps between the points to follow along.

That’s all.

Well done, and I understand what you are pointing towards!

 

As for “Truth”!    Human Truth, regardless of one’s level of consciousness and experience, will always be human interpreted “Truth”.

 

Whenever I have gone beyond the Human mind consciousness into the realm of God Consciousness, it is so vast and infinite that it is beyond words, concepts or Human understanding.  The only thing a Human mind can do when returning back to the Human consciousness, which includes the Ego, is to interpret the experience through ones own filtered lens of beliefs, thoughts, ideas and Human concepts.

 

My Human Truth, is that whatever a person experienced beyond human consciousness in the realm of God consciousness, will only ever be personal filtered Human concepts!  It is a Truth, but it is only a Human interpreted Truth.

 

Anyone who says they “Fully” understand, grasp and proclaim they are Absolute Truth!    from my perspective, is playing in Spiritual bypass.

[Breakingthewall]

30 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

What remains is a bottomless, boundless void

Void is a very bad term ,It's been grating in my mind ever since I wrote it. It's a term that closes. The absolute is openness, period.

[Ishanga]

1 minute ago, DLH said:

Well done, and I understand what you are pointing towards!

 

As for “Truth”!    Human Truth, regardless of one’s level of consciousness and experience, will always be human interpreted “Truth”.

 

Whenever I have gone beyond the Human mind consciousness into the realm of God Consciousness, it is so vast and infinite that it is beyond words, concepts or Human understanding.  The only thing a Human mind can do when returning back to the Human consciousness, which includes the Ego, is to interpret the experience through ones own filtered lens of beliefs, thoughts, ideas and Human concepts.

 

My Human Truth, is that whatever a person experienced beyond human consciousness in the realm of God consciousness, will only ever be personal filtered Human concepts!  It is a Truth, but it is only a Human interpreted Truth.

 

Anyone who says they “Fully” understand, grasp and proclaim they are Absolute Truth!    from my perspective, is playing in Spiritual bypass.

Yes!

First only us Humans can have these sorts of Experiences as vastly as it is, we can almost understand Infinity, but not quite, but compared to the other life forms we are massive advantaged in this context!

Everything comes from the Experience of Absolute and Infinity and endless Potential, God per say, then it filters down to our Karmic condition in a sense, our present day conditioning and tendencies/beliefs/ideological systems that are in place in our Body and Mind complexes, this will filter down to our daily Experience and Expression of it, so once this filter process is taking place for sure it is not the same for everyone, ppl still have to function right, pay the bills, deal with family and our societal responsibilities and so forth, so in the case everything on that level is individualistic and different, but the inner Experience is the same and one of Wholeness, Completeness, Peace and Blissfulness, compassion and responsibility are present!

[Monster Energy]

22 minutes ago, DLH said:

Well done, and I understand what you are pointing towards!

 

As for “Truth”!    Human Truth, regardless of one’s level of consciousness and experience, will always be human interpreted “Truth”.

 

Whenever I have gone beyond the Human mind consciousness into the realm of God Consciousness, it is so vast and infinite that it is beyond words, concepts or Human understanding.  The only thing a Human mind can do when returning back to the Human consciousness, which includes the Ego, is to interpret the experience through ones own filtered lens of beliefs, thoughts, ideas and Human concepts.

 

My Human Truth, is that whatever a person experienced beyond human consciousness in the realm of God consciousness, will only ever be personal filtered Human concepts!  It is a Truth, but it is only a Human interpreted Truth.

 

Anyone who says they “Fully” understand, grasp and proclaim they are Absolute Truth!    from my perspective, is playing in Spiritual bypass.

I appreciate the thoughtfulness. For me the important part is simply recognizing how much translation happens the moment an experience re-enters a human mind. Whatever the source may be, it always arrives filtered, shaped, and interpreted.

That doesn’t make it meaningless, it just means we stay honest about the limits of what the mind can claim.

 

[Breakingthewall]

52 minutes ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

My question is: since we clearly have states of God-realization and enlightenment where people are still alive and survive, and we accept those as valid insights, even though they technically didn’t 'relinquish all desire,'

The point would be to fully understand what enlightenment means. What I see is that it means being open to your true nature. This doesn't imply that you're an ascetic or someone who doesn't desire, but rather that you've managed to synchronize your energetic structure so that it doesn't close off.

But you are still you, a human with a mental structure, a body, etc. Your true nature isn't a "you," it isn't someone who does, nor is it absolute consciousness; it's total openness.

You truly are that, but the manifestation of that is now a human, so the one who wants things is the human. Even the one who is conscious is the human (I know no one will agree with this).

Absolute openness doesn't want things; it is absolute openness. It isn't something; it's the absence of limits. It isn't grasped by the mind; it opens when, deep within the structure of your mind, there is a hole, not a definition.

[Terell Kirby]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Do not get the wrong idea that all my claims about God are Absolute.

This helps.

I have to keep bringing myself back to the truth that the talking head on my screen called Leo is a projection of my Mind.

Most projections of Mind are there to serve my limited worldview and identity as human- even when I don’t necessarily want them to