The challenges when discussing metaphysical or consciousness topics online

[Ramasta9]

i've been wanting to create this topic for some time now and haven't really found the window of opportunity to deliver it until now. So bare with me.

The topic is around why text‑only communication fundamentally distorts certain types of exchanges, especially those involving presence, consciousness, or energetic nuance. I share this because I have noticed how many exchanges i have with people online, or exchanges people have online in general, often end up in misunderstandings, projections and ego-driven arguments, and a big part of this is because there is no solid ground or physical medium through which the expressions can be fully expressed or released, rather everything gets squeezed through a mental filter, which is incomplete, and what this does energetically is that it doesn't allow full expression or needed exchange, and lacks emotional, somatic and relational layers that allow two people to truly meet.

When we communicate in person, we receive the full signal: tone, presence, body language, micro-expressions and overall energy signatures of one another. This multilayered exchange is essential for understanding where someone is actually coming from and allows conversations to come full circle.

In my experience, I find 90% of online conflict completely dissolves when the same two people sit down together by the fire enjoying a cuppa. I personally have experienced many clashes with people online that when i requested we continue this in person, it was resolved in 5 minutes or less. Suddenly we can feel each other... the defensiveness drops, the misunderstandings evaporate, and what was once an argument becomes a human moment.

At the end of the day we are vibrational beings. Our energy fields interact even before our words do, and online text strips that layer away, and without it, people are left to (fill in the blanks) with their own projections. That's why online clashes feel so distorted, because the actual energetic exchange is missing, and the connection never fully lands, after all, its an artificial medium, there's only so much that can be transmitted through.

So whats missing in text and online chats? Lets explore this a little deeper.

* Tone & Cadence: softness, intensity, sincerity, breath, pauses, timing, rhythm... which reveals the overall state of consciousness, not just the ideas.

* Body Language: posture, eye contact, gestures, micro-expression... that transmit truthfulness, coherence, confidence, vulnerability and emotional regulation.

* Energetic Field: sensing someones presence, the depth of groundedness, openness or contraction, clarity or confusion, thus you can feel if someone is centered or scattered - online text hides all of this.

* Emotional Resonance: You can feel and hear a persons heart through their voice, text reduces everything to ideas, not presence.

Some of these topics like: awareness, embodiment, alignment, intuition, truthfulness ect... cannot be communicated purely through information, rather they are properly transmitted through being. Text is like an information-medium, where Presence is a consciousness-medium.

Non-dual or metaphysical insight is not just conceptual, its a shift in felt experience. When people talk about these things in text, the entire felt dimension is amputated. This is why online spiritual arguments become so neurotic and disconnected, everyone is arguing about states they aren't feeling each other in.

What are some illusions text-only communication creates?

* Fake Clarity: Writing can sound "clean" or "wise" even if the person is not embodied.

* Ego Inflation: Text rewards intellectual sharpness, not actual presence.

* Misinterpretation: Without tone, almost anything can be read as: anger, arrogance, defensiveness and sarcasm, and thus people tend to fill emotional gaps with their own projections. And we also experience Dehumanization and forget there is a nervous system behind the words...

So such deeper topics are not about content, they are about consciousness, and text flattens consciousness into words, and removes presence, nuance, embodiment, vulnerability, sincerity and energetic transmissions, and those are exactly the ingredients needed for these conversations. Because spiritual, non-dual, or metaphysical insights require felt resonance, not just word manipulation. You can feel if someone is speaking from ego or from depth.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

An idea i had would be to add voice or video commands to the forums. This will help bridge-the-gap so we can relate more deeply and accurately with one another. This would naturally bring out authentic expression, make it impossible to hide behind carefully edited text, and encourage everyone to truly stand in their own truth and presence. Conversations would carry tone, emotion, and energy, helping members connect on a much deeper level than text alone allows.

Maybe something we can work on in the future? Why this works? Well if you think about it, voice carries tone, eyes carry presence, warmth and coldness or confidence and shakiness are felt/sensed, pauses reflect contemplation, emotions are witnessed more directly. Suddenly subtlety returns, misunderstandings drop, people naturally respect each other more, the "vibration" of the message is felt, and as defensiveness dissolves, arguments turn into valuable conversations.

Otherwise we could have meet-ups / circles / gatherings in different countries or zones, this could be very effective in building a stronger support group.

And to those playing the AI Police lately, this took a lot of time and energy to write so please go away, if you cant handle such a post, its not my problem.

I trust this will spark something upon the forums, peace be with you.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

Context is always very nuanced and a challenge to communicate properly through text. This, combined with all topics pertaining to metaphysics, awakening, enlightenment, consciousness... context is never fully encapsulated.

Everything is a pointer. Just the slightest angle of 1 degree difference with the pointers between individuals, results in discord.

It is the nature of these topics. 

It would help if everyone remembered we are on each others side, it is a not war of who knows more. Openness without defence. There is too much of an egoic need to correct present, not only on the forum - but woven into the nature of humans within present culture. 

We are individuated and a voiced species with no telepathy - and this makes us very very unique. Very individual and special. But this also makes bridging the gap all the more difficult. And needed more than ever.

We had an entire thread on context alone here.

Words don't actually even describe the things they point to. Without context there is no meaning.

Light can be a light weight, bright light, light sleeper etc.

The context defines all.

[Ramasta9]

@Natasha Tori Maru Appreciate your input

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@Ramasta9 Thank you for the post!

I think my advice to users would be to always ask ourselves; 'what am I assuming about the passage I just read? What are the presuppositions?' prior to responding. It is these assumptions that usually close us off and are a result of habitual, reflexive thinking patterns. 

Often, by probing further with openness, new contexts are revealed that reframe the entire message. Evaluating assumptions and presuppositions also tends to reveal our own thinking biases - which we should all be aware of. This naturally raises consciousness 

On these sorts of heady, intellectual & mind-based spiritual forums - the masculine is drawn in like a moth to the flame.

With that masculine energy is usually the fire that wants to fight and joust... 

And make it about the win

[Ramasta9]

@Natasha Tori Maru No worries. I couldn't reply until now.

I've tried to send you a message a few times about some concerns i have on these forums but not able to. 

Multiple times throughout the day i cannot post (there is nowhere to comment or make a topic), nor i can send people messages, only reply to those who message me first. Not sure if Leo or other mods are targeting me, but I've seen this type of behavior before.

If i try to send a private message, I get the message: You are only allowed to send 0 messages per day. Please try again later. That's been there as far as I can remember.

Recently I was discussing with someone who valued my posts about how such topics and posts can be a threat to the spiritual hierarchy on these forums, that its mostly ego-disguised as wisdom, and instantly after that reply this came up:

You have reached your posting limits. Please wait 24 hours and try again. Almost as if they are being watched and read..

Either the forums is really broken or there's definitely some sneaky business going on, it wouldn't surprise me.

Anyways thanks for your words, support, and most importantly for keeping it real <3

 

 

[Mellowmarsh]

7 hours ago, Ramasta9 said:

i've been wanting to create this topic for some time now and haven't really found the window of opportunity to deliver it until now. So bare with me.

The topic is around why text‑only communication fundamentally distorts certain types of exchanges, especially those involving presence, consciousness, or energetic nuance. I share this because I have noticed how many exchanges i have with people online, or exchanges people have online in general, often end up in misunderstandings, projections and ego-driven arguments, and a big part of this is because there is no solid ground or physical medium through which the expressions can be fully expressed or released, rather everything gets squeezed through a mental filter, which is incomplete, and what this does energetically is that it doesn't allow full expression or needed exchange, and lacks emotional, somatic and relational layers that allow two people to truly meet.

When we communicate in person, we receive the full signal: tone, presence, body language, micro-expressions and overall energy signatures of one another. This multilayered exchange is essential for understanding where someone is actually coming from and allows conversations to come full circle.

In my experience, I find 90% of online conflict completely dissolves when the same two people sit down together by the fire enjoying a cuppa. I personally have experienced many clashes with people online that when i requested we continue this in person, it was resolved in 5 minutes or less. Suddenly we can feel each other... the defensiveness drops, the misunderstandings evaporate, and what was once an argument becomes a human moment.

At the end of the day we are vibrational beings. Our energy fields interact even before our words do, and online text strips that layer away, and without it, people are left to (fill in the blanks) with their own projections. That's why online clashes feel so distorted, because the actual energetic exchange is missing, and the connection never fully lands, after all, its an artificial medium, there's only so much that can be transmitted through.

So whats missing in text and online chats? Lets explore this a little deeper.

* Tone & Cadence: softness, intensity, sincerity, breath, pauses, timing, rhythm... which reveals the overall state of consciousness, not just the ideas.

* Body Language: posture, eye contact, gestures, micro-expression... that transmit truthfulness, coherence, confidence, vulnerability and emotional regulation.

* Energetic Field: sensing someones presence, the depth of groundedness, openness or contraction, clarity or confusion, thus you can feel if someone is centered or scattered - online text hides all of this.

* Emotional Resonance: You can feel and hear a persons heart through their voice, text reduces everything to ideas, not presence.

Some of these topics like: awareness, embodiment, alignment, intuition, truthfulness ect... cannot be communicated purely through information, rather they are properly transmitted through being. Text is like an information-medium, where Presence is a consciousness-medium.

Non-dual or metaphysical insight is not just conceptual, its a shift in felt experience. When people talk about these things in text, the entire felt dimension is amputated. This is why online spiritual arguments become so neurotic and disconnected, everyone is arguing about states they aren't feeling each other in.

What are some illusions text-only communication creates?

* Fake Clarity: Writing can sound "clean" or "wise" even if the person is not embodied.

* Ego Inflation: Text rewards intellectual sharpness, not actual presence.

* Misinterpretation: Without tone, almost anything can be read as: anger, arrogance, defensiveness and sarcasm, and thus people tend to fill emotional gaps with their own projections. And we also experience Dehumanization and forget there is a nervous system behind the words...

So such deeper topics are not about content, they are about consciousness, and text flattens consciousness into words, and removes presence, nuance, embodiment, vulnerability, sincerity and energetic transmissions, and those are exactly the ingredients needed for these conversations. Because spiritual, non-dual, or metaphysical insights require felt resonance, not just word manipulation. You can feel if someone is speaking from ego or from depth.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

An idea i had would be to add voice or video commands to the forums. This will help bridge-the-gap so we can relate more deeply and accurately with one another. This would naturally bring out authentic expression, make it impossible to hide behind carefully edited text, and encourage everyone to truly stand in their own truth and presence. Conversations would carry tone, emotion, and energy, helping members connect on a much deeper level than text alone allows.

Maybe something we can work on in the future? Why this works? Well if you think about it, voice carries tone, eyes carry presence, warmth and coldness or confidence and shakiness are felt/sensed, pauses reflect contemplation, emotions are witnessed more directly. Suddenly subtlety returns, misunderstandings drop, people naturally respect each other more, the "vibration" of the message is felt, and as defensiveness dissolves, arguments turn into valuable conversations.

Otherwise we could have meet-ups / circles / gatherings in different countries or zones, this could be very effective in building a stronger support group.

And to those playing the AI Police lately, this took a lot of time and energy to write so please go away, if you cant handle such a post, its not my problem.

I trust this will spark something upon the forums, peace be with you.

I think you are onto something. I think you may have a good story, possibly a best seller.

What did you title your book. Let me imagine, what about (How not to look through the wrong end of the telescope) ? 

[gettoefl]

For me no. When speaking, everyone is sloppy and light and just says yea right neat and funny whatever and you are cool man. When writing, if you do it right, you should be laser focused to sift the chaff from the wheat. Key is to say it in a couple of words. Nobody cares about screens full of salad.

[Carl-Richard]

15 hours ago, Ramasta9 said:

And to those playing the AI Police lately, this took a lot of time and energy to write so please go away, if you cant handle such a post, its not my problem.

Let's also not dismiss a relevant topic. How do you think AI use relates to the points you brought up?

 

15 hours ago, Ramasta9 said:

An idea i had would be to add voice or video commands to the forums. This will help bridge-the-gap so we can relate more deeply and accurately with one another. This would naturally bring out authentic expression, make it impossible to hide behind carefully edited text, and encourage everyone to truly stand in their own truth and presence. Conversations would carry tone, emotion, and energy, helping members connect on a much deeper level than text alone allows.

Inb4 geniuses use AI-generated voice.

The technology you're looking for is called Discord. But with closer social bonds and the tendency for quicker and shorter format posts comes certain challenges. I think having to express yourself in text in a long format way is an exceptional way to develop your thinking and a way to ensure a level of quality control.

 

11 hours ago, Ramasta9 said:

Multiple times throughout the day i cannot post (there is nowhere to comment or make a topic), nor i can send people messages, only reply to those who message me first. Not sure if Leo or other mods are targeting me, but I've seen this type of behavior before.

If i try to send a private message, I get the message: You are only allowed to send 0 messages per day. Please try again later. That's been there as far as I can remember.

Recently I was discussing with someone who valued my posts about how such topics and posts can be a threat to the spiritual hierarchy on these forums, that its mostly ego-disguised as wisdom, and instantly after that reply this came up:

You have reached your posting limits. Please wait 24 hours and try again. Almost as if they are being watched and read..

Either the forums is really broken or there's definitely some sneaky business going on, it wouldn't surprise me.

When threatened, the ego might become paranoid and project more threats where there aren't any. It's good that you're discovering the imperfections of this forum, just as the world. But just like changing the world, it could be good to hamper one's expectations, start from a level of acceptance. The forum and the world is not a threat to you.

Edited 14 hours ago by Carl-Richard

[Carl-Richard]

15 hours ago, Ramasta9 said:

Some of these topics like: awareness, embodiment, alignment, intuition, truthfulness ect... cannot be communicated purely through information, rather they are properly transmitted through being. Text is like an information-medium, where Presence is a consciousness-medium.

Non-dual or metaphysical insight is not just conceptual, its a shift in felt experience. When people talk about these things in text, the entire felt dimension is amputated. This is why online spiritual arguments become so neurotic and disconnected, everyone is arguing about states they aren't feeling each other in.

What are some illusions text-only communication creates?

* Fake Clarity: Writing can sound "clean" or "wise" even if the person is not embodied.

* Ego Inflation: Text rewards intellectual sharpness, not actual presence.

* Misinterpretation: Without tone, almost anything can be read as: anger, arrogance, defensiveness and sarcasm, and thus people tend to fill emotional gaps with their own projections. And we also experience Dehumanization and forget there is a nervous system behind the words...

So such deeper topics are not about content, they are about consciousness, and text flattens consciousness into words, and removes presence, nuance, embodiment, vulnerability, sincerity and energetic transmissions, and those are exactly the ingredients needed for these conversations. Because spiritual, non-dual, or metaphysical insights require felt resonance, not just word manipulation. You can feel if someone is speaking from ego or from depth.

Connection is not impossible through text. It's quite possible. @Natasha Tori Maru can attest to that. When @Nahm was a regular on this forum, his text connected with me in ways probably no human has. And it's possible to not connect in person. See countless videos of satsangs where guests ask questions and express confusion and doubt. But I'm sure any connection that is there could definitely be magnified in certain ways. I've spent hours just watching spiritual teachers talk, not listening to their words, just watching, and getting more out of that than any words they were saying.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@Ramasta9 You possibly have some account restrictions in place? Because I notice you are flagged as a 'new user'. Perhaps when this cooldown period is off you will have full privileges. Having said that, I do not know all the ins-and-outs of the account system. Maybe @Sincerity might have some information? 

6 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Connection is not impossible through text. It's quite possible. @Natasha Tori Maru can attest to that. 

He he he! YES. While it is hard to connect through text sometimes it just HITS. Some users, you just read their words, and they are so easy to follow. Phrasing and delivery. As well as subject. It is written in such a way it is a pleasure to read their posts. Even when it is on topics I do not necessarily align with or share interest. I think this is a big part of why AI is so jarring to me when it is used more than normal. 

I don't want to freak you out but I did notice your absence on the forum, and my immediate thought was 'I bet he is in that crazy period where there is cramming and pushing to submit a paper. I bed Carl-Richard isn't sleeping.' I actually thought that... and I am coming across your posts, scattered in random threads, affirming this! Life would be simpler if this stuff didn't just randomly keep happening... but way, way less fun!

Edited 7 hours ago by Natasha Tori Maru

[Sincerity]

51 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

@Ramasta9 You possibly have some account restrictions in place? Because I notice you are flagged as a 'new user'. Perhaps when this cooldown period is off you will have full privileges. Having said that, I do not know all the ins-and-outs of the account system. Maybe @Sincerity might have some information? 

Yes, it’s been known to happen to new users. It should stop being like this in some time  

Edited 6 hours ago by Sincerity

[Carl-Richard]

2 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

He he he! YES. While it is hard to connect through text sometimes it just HITS. Some users, you just read their words, and they are so easy to follow. Phrasing and delivery. As well as subject. It is written in such a way it is a pleasure to read their posts. Even when it is on topics I do not necessarily align with or share interest. I think this is a big part of why AI is so jarring to me when it is used more than normal.

Speech is after all just another medium, as is energetic transmission face to face. If you want complete undeniable connection, you have to become me, from my perspective. The thing about AI is that behind the medium, there is nothing. The medium is a flat, groundless mirage that disappears with only minor scrutiny. And like a mirage of a water source in the desert where you expect to be hydrated and filled with life, you're left with severe disappointment and a dry mouth and a fear for your existence.

 

2 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

I don't want to freak you out but I did notice your absence on the forum, and my immediate thought was 'I bet he is in that crazy period where there is cramming and pushing to submit a paper. I bed Carl-Richard isn't sleeping.' I actually thought that... and I am coming across your posts, scattered in random threads, affirming this! Life would be simpler if this stuff didn't just randomly keep happening... but way, way less fun!

I did think whether somebody did notice my absence.

[Ramasta9]

Hnm... thanks for the exchanges and explaining that, and not to be a conspiracy nut but I have been targeted before, don't really want to get into it. And its not really paranoia, I haven't experienced those things since i was a teeanger, just observational pattern recognition.

And yes good old Nahm, my old buddy, he did go a bit too non-dual tho, i did try to help him keep both feet on earth.

[Carl-Richard]

4 minutes ago, Ramasta9 said:

Hnm... thanks for the exchanges and explaining that, and not to be a conspiracy nut but I have been targeted before, don't really want to get into it. And its not really paranoia, I haven't experienced those things since i was a teeanger, just observational pattern recognition.

I also get paranoid about things nobody gets paranoid about, also informed by life experiences 😋

 

6 minutes ago, Ramasta9 said:

And yes good old Nahm, my old buddy, he did go a bit too non-dual tho, i did try to help him keep both feet on earth.

I thought he was just a-ok.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

23 minutes ago, Ramasta9 said:

Hnm... thanks for the exchanges and explaining that, and not to be a conspiracy nut but I have been targeted before, don't really want to get into it. And its not really paranoia, I haven't experienced those things since i was a teeanger, just observational pattern recognition.

And yes good old Nahm, my old buddy, he did go a bit too non-dual tho, i did try to help him keep both feet on earth.

I think it is inherent to pattern-recognition personality types to see these sorts of things. For myself - as long as I am not drawing hard conclusions or meaning making, and do not close myself off to other possibilities - I enjoy the process of slowly finding puzzle pieces of people over time and matching them up... and not just people. Anything really. Patterns and perspectives are my natural mode  

24 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

I did think whether somebody did notice my absence.

I missed the typical Carl style of ripping someone's ideas into the shredded ruins of hopes and dreams  

How long can you keep the inner dragon tamed? He he he 

Edited 4 hours ago by Natasha Tori Maru

[Ramasta9]

5 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

I also get paranoid about things nobody gets paranoid about, also informed by life experiences 😋

 

I thought he was just a-ok.

Yeah not that he wasn't he was great, but where i was attempting to bridge-the-gap was that the non-dual concepts don't always land too well, especially online when you cannot feel and read the energy of the individual your communicating with, so you can't always truly sense what they need in the moment, so i was nudging to find a middle way, bit closer to an human/earthy relation and point of reference.

I think this is why Leo had to ban him from the forums because of the almost non-human like responses that may be conceptually true, they didn't always, and more often than so, actually help instead cause more confusion in forums, which i feel Nahm was more suited for advanced seekers.

I been on his other forum on and off and I have notriced people who struggle to grasp his method and teachings naturally find meaning in my comments. I still love Nahm, even though we have our differences. 

 

[Natasha Tori Maru]

10 minutes ago, Ramasta9 said:

I think this is why Leo had to ban him from the forums because of the almost non-human like responses that may be conceptually true, they didn't always, and more often than so, actually help instead cause more confusion in forums, which i feel Nahm was more suited for advanced seekers

While I understand the non-dual talk as the pointer it is, I find it is mostly confusing to users and propels less experienced individuals into emotional and spiritual bypassing. Especially over text. 

We have our own crew here who do a mixture of bypassing and truth. And they often will not drop the neo advaita trash talking to meet another users where they are at. It sort of comes across as quite arrogant, because if these individuals really did have a genuine intent to teach they would tailor their language to assist other users in understanding. Instead they try to sledgehammer non-dual language at the other users....

Edited 4 hours ago by Natasha Tori Maru

[Ramasta9]

1 minute ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

While I understand the non-dual talk as the pointer it is, I find it is mostly confusing to users and propels less experienced individuals into emotionall and spiritual bypassing. Especially over text. 

We have our own crew here who do a mixture of bypassing and truth. And they often will not drop the neo advaita trash talking to meet another users where they are at. It sort of comes across as quite arrogant, because if these individuals really did have a genuine intent to teach they would tailor their language to assist other users in understanding. Instead they try to sledgehammer non-dual language at the other users....

Indeed. I have been dealing with this for some time now, and attempting to convey the importance of what you said, and even made some posts on multiple forums about it, unfortunately only a few grounded and more open individuals seem receptive enough, or willing to admit the truth in it all.

There is a "spiritual-hierarchy" role that is being held onto too strongly with neo non-dual teachers, and especially on online forums. I find my nature simply threatens that paradigm because I am not afraid to point things out that others aren't seeing or pointing out themselves, and often when I do, whether its Leo, Nahm or anyone else, I mostly get shit from all the minions that blindly follow them without realizing the truth for themselves and the greater importance of the core message that i am attempting to convey. Whats coming from love is then seen as the threat.

There was a whole post on depression i recently had to detach from, and the person expressing it only became more confused in the end, he did thank me though, for keeping it real and meeting him where he was at and needed to be met, while N was completely ignoring or oblivious to this.

And I feel its all because they become too Identified with the "teacher" role, that their presence on the forum is built around being the one who "knows", and needing to appear "unshakable".  And when people introduce anything that suggests vulnerability, relatability or the emotional field, it threatens that very self‑image. Simply avoiding being humanized, as that would potentially collapse the imaginary pedestal they stand on.

Otherwise i feel this "clinging" to the nondual realizations is used to avoid feeling their own disowned emotions. And that's what denial looks like in a spiritual context, The Absolute becomes (armor) against vulnerability. This is ego trying to survive under the mask of spiritual authority.

Its too masculine and to one-sided, the feminine has been divorced, and one becomes blinded by the light.

 

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, Ramasta9 said:

I think this is why Leo had to ban him from the forums because of the almost non-human like responses that may be conceptually true, they didn't always, and more often than so, actually help instead cause more confusion in forums, which i feel Nahm was more suited for advanced seekers.

I have my own theories but I don't bother commenting limitations too much.

 

1 hour ago, Ramasta9 said:

I been on his other forum on and off and I have notriced people who struggle to grasp his method and teachings naturally find meaning in my comments. I still love Nahm, even though we have our differences. 

There are multiple ends of a Zen stick.

Edited 2 hours ago by Carl-Richard

[Someone here]

@Carl-Richard he is Nahm .flat out .more obvious than the sun at 12 PM.

Edited 2 hours ago by Someone here