Is wage slavery always bad?

[chess_king]

On 11/24/2025 at 5:27 PM, Leo Gura said:

If I had to do that I would kill myself.

Really, is it that easy to kill yourself?

I wish I had your courage.

[ryoko]

5 hours ago, Daniel Balan said:

actual slavery.... while being paid 100$ a month

The picture is more complicated: in the early 2000s some Chinese factory workers earned the equivalent of $80–120/month, but today legal minimum wages in China are generally $230–400/month, with major cities above that and far stricter oversight than 20 years ago. Their $100/month back then stretched much further because rent, food, and transport were extremely cheap, giving it roughly the buying power of $500–600/month in the U.S. today—still harsh, but not literal slavery. Poverty and exploitation absolutely exist, but the idea that “millions still make $100/month to build your products” is outdated and oversimplified. A worker living on $100/month in 2005 China often had stability, community, and social equality, while someone living on $500/month in the U.S. today faces isolation, high costs, and constant status pressure, making the same absolute poverty far more emotionally punishing. 

Poverty in developed nations carries intense stigma, which creates a far stronger drive to make money just to avoid the humiliation and instability that come with falling behind. When you already live under that pressure and then work full-time simply to survive—making someone else richer while losing the time and energy to pursue your own goals—the idea of “wage slavery” emerges naturally. It’s ultimately a question of meaning and comparison: if your neighbor drives a Ferrari while you’re drowning, the psychological weight of inequality can feel heavier than the poverty itself.

Edited 15 hours ago by ryoko

[Andrey]

I would argue that the majority of people want that creative freedom but not everyone can have it. What is required is insane flexibility, pain tolerance, requisite variety, intelligence and mostly luck. Realisitcally only a certain percent of such people will be able to enjoy such life, just like a single spermatozoid will fertilize the egg.

Edited 13 hours ago by Andrey

[Leo Gura]

If working for someone else causes you enough suffering you will be motivated enough to find a way out.

[ryoko]

@Leo GuraI'd say you've spoiled an entire generation of youth with the idea of life purpose. 

Top misleading ideas of the century. Especially when spirituality comes into the mix and life is not something you "do", but life is what you are. The semantics of it is so baked into me, I simply can't relate to the very concept. 

Edited 2 hours ago by ryoko

[How to be wise]

On 24/11/2025 at 3:27 PM, Leo Gura said:

It much depends on your personality and level of ambition. Most people are not very ambitious nor creative so for them working a simple steady job is fine.

But for someone like me it is torture.

I cannot do it because I demand way more from my life than obeying a boss to do medicore work to make him rich while the world gets dumber and dumber.

It all depends on your values. Creative people require lots of autonomy and freedom to do their work. For non-creative people this is a non-issue. Some personality types can be happy working at the post office licking stamps. If I had to do that I would kill myself.

Even if you work for yourself, you will still be a slave to your customers.

If my clients have an appointment at 10 am, and I decide to sleep over the time, I’m as good as toast. 

So in that sense I don’t have the freedom to do whatever I want.

[Leo Gura]

49 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

Even if you work for yourself, you will still be a slave to your customers.

If my clients have an appointment at 10 am, and I decide to sleep over the time, I’m as good as toast. 

So in that sense I don’t have the freedom to do whatever I want.

Working with clients can be as bad as slavery. The ideal business is not having clients.

But the notion of doing whatever you want isn't really work. Work entails obligations which you often don't want to do. Otherwise it wouldn't be work, it would be play.

That's the difference between work and play.

Edited 1 hour ago by Leo Gura

[Greatnestwithin]

18 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Working with clients can be as bad as slavery. The ideal business is not having clients.

But the notion of doing whatever you want isn't really work. Work entails obligations which you often don't want to do. Otherwise it wouldn't be work, it would be play.

That's the difference between work and play.

@Leo Gura are we your clients? Do you have? Or do you operate outside of needing clients? 

[ryoko]

32 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

But the notion of doing whatever you want isn't really work

What if you'd rather do nothing? 

Any "doing" is work. 

[Terell Kirby]

38 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The ideal business is not having clients.

What business doesn't involve clients and customers though?

Edited 56 minutes ago by Terell Kirby

[Leo Gura]

23 minutes ago, Greatnestwithin said:

@Leo Gura are we your clients?

No

5 minutes ago, Terell Kirby said:

What business doesn't involve clients and customers though?

Clients vs customers is different. Customers just buy stuff. That is easy. Clients demand you service them. Which is a pain in the ass.

If you make a video game or write a book, you don't have clients, you have customers.

A client tells you what to do, a customer doesn't.

Edited 51 minutes ago by Leo Gura

[Terell Kirby]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

No

Clients vs customers is different. Customers just buy stuff. That is easy. Clients demand you service them. Which is a pain in the ass.

If you make a video game or write a book, you don't have clients, you have customers.

I see your point.

Difference between creating something that people will buy off the strength of the product vs. employing certain skills to help people advance their survival agendas.

Is this why you stopped life coaching?

[Leo Gura]

15 minutes ago, Terell Kirby said:

Is this why you stopped life coaching?

That's part of it.

I'm better at making videos than life coaching. My passion is not in coaching. You can't be the best at something you're not passionate about.

Edited 31 minutes ago by Leo Gura