Only way to Truth, and great conversation with Mellowmarsh

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, zazen said:

The vantage point is made of the Absolute, but doesn’t encompass the Absolute. A vantage point is finite by definition, whilst the Absolute is limitless. But this limitless includes the capacity for self-limitation - because a limitless that couldn’t express as a limit would in fact be limited.

The specific manifestation, the self, the vantage point, whatever we call it, is made of the essence of the absolute, but also of the totality of form. I think it's important to see this. This doesn't mean there aren't more vantage points, but rather that the center is an energetic construct, an "illusion" (a misleading word), and what you are contains the totality of form. The gears that make you move are in the cosmos in its entirety. A butterfly flaps its wings in the parallel universe xj12700, and you think that your neighbor is hot.  Everything is totally interconnected; nothing is separate, neither in essence nor in form. Or if you prefer, a thought about your neighbor appears creating a center of tension that wants, a self, and that self , with wanting, is the cause of a limitless line of effects 

2 hours ago, zazen said:

Even Hallaj was from that same environment. When he claimed “I am truth” there was no “I” making the claim. It wasn’t as a an ego identifying itself as the total, but more so realizing that there is nothing but the truth

Well, I'd say both. There is nothing but the truth, so the self that perceives itself as a center recognizes that's a energetic temporary construction, a tensional node, then it claims: I really am something different in structure and essence that what seems, I am the totality in all senses. "I" because there is a point that "know", a knowledge happening. It's the same if it's not "real", it is. 

2 hours ago, zazen said:

It threatened power political and religious because it would imply bypassing both - even if it’s a matter of fact.

Sure, because religion didn't aim to freedom but to control, same than now. I don't mean that was wrong, was necessary to build civilization, but it's necessary now? I think it's a hindrance 

2 hours ago, zazen said:

people are conflating or arguing between seeing (being open), understanding (interpretation)

Mostly are only in understanding without seeing, and understanding according them is realizing that what they watched in the videos is true. They use psychedelic to understand. It's like using alcohol to drive moto GP. Psychedelic are for dissolve energetic blockages, relaxation of the tensional node that is the center of perception to perceive those blockages, and to have moments of openess to the absolute nature, then sending a message to the blockages: you can relax, stop controlling so hard, there is not a threat, there is the totality and you are that. It's the only way to make them relax little by little . For understanding, better than psychedelics, study quantum physics. 

 

 

Edited 5 hours ago by Breakingthewall

[gettoefl]

When I see a tree, I see the form. Form is paper over the formless bottomless absolute essence. How to realize and experience this? Forgiveness of the specific tree. I birth the form, I ditch the form. I placed the tree there for a reason. Well many reasons in fact. But only one is important. The tree is exhibit one that I am a separate form. I launched it from my mind to serve that very purpose - to convince me of and entrench me in separation. No I am wrong about that and have pretended for too long. Me and tree are both the same thing - finite forms opening to the infinite formless. I now forgive myself for the self deception of making a universe of separation devices. I at last awaken to the glory of the absolute essence that I am.

Edited 3 hours ago by gettoefl

[Ishanga]

Going on and on talking about it, sharing or starting threads/posts about it, none of it is IT, talking takes you further away from it, debating about is the same, agreeing about it is the same you only create a Tribe doing that..

Forums are only good for Beginners, absolute Seekers, Seekers are like a 4 yr old going to Kindergarten for the first time, that is what all these Threads, Talking back and forth is, Kindergarten Understanding, Kindergarten Experience, Kindergarten Spiritual Growth... but there is all the rest of it to go thru, Middle School, High School, College or University and Life itself can all teach You and we must progress thru it all to have a complete Life, not staying in Kindergarten!  

Edited 3 hours ago by Ishanga

[James123]

6 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

Going on and on talking about it, sharing or starting threads/posts about it, none of it is IT, talking takes you further away from it,

No. Exactly opposite. That mean is not chasing, taking an action etc...

When one simply digests (none of is it), one simply stops. 

That's what the core of all spiritual practices.

[Ishanga]

13 minutes ago, James123 said:

No. Exactly opposite. That mean is not chasing, taking an action etc...

When one simply digests (none of is it), one simply stops. 

That's what the core of all spiritual practices.

No, starting threads like You do is not empowering anyone, it only empowers Your personal Ego, because You think  You know, and sharing like You do makes You feel Good and enhances Your Ego.

If posting and starting threads felt like watching Your child being Tortured, would You do it? No you wouldn't, you would not post and start threads if the feeling was like that, so it feels good for You (and all of Us) to do this game we are doing but in the end it doesn't mean anything and is Ego enhancing, it only maybe helps the new person learning to Seek answers and find Truth, but that is small time Spirituality!!

[Natasha Tori Maru]

14 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

No, starting threads like You do is not empowering anyone, it only empowers Your personal Ego, because You think  You know, and sharing like You do makes You feel Good and enhances Your Ego.

It is ego again, hiding in a new form not yet identified. You are trying to show someone how they have been tricked by ego again - very very difficult. I admire the efforts 🙏

There is a lot of 'telling' and not a lot of guiding ... A lot of attachment to the one who tells... 

[Ishanga]

7 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

It is ego again, hiding in a new form not yet identified. You are trying to show someone how they have been tricked by ego again - very very difficult. I admire the efforts 🙏

There is a lot of 'telling' and not a lot of guiding ... A lot of attachment to the one who tells... 

Yes its Ego, all of this is Ego, but I am Aware of this Ego, and the Intention is correct, to help others have some sense of Who they Are.. Yes I think James123 has that intent too, but he is unaware of the Ego, how do I know? The amount of threads started and such, for some reason they get traction here, which is ego based as well..

If Ego did not exist in us, then no socializing would happen, which is what forums are, socializing in a sense... But there has to be a Balance to it all, I have no problems with forums but ppl get addicted to it and are on here many many hours a day scrolling, reading, participating or not, and in the end it will get you nowhere if Your truly wanting to Maximise Your Potential and find out what it means to be Human! 

That process is done internally, and its quiet and one generally uses time proven methods to do this, like learning how to Sit, Stand, Walk, Think, Breath and basics like this, too much intellectually pursuing truth in our day and age gets one further away from Truth imo!

I could leave this forum, never come here again, never participate no problem today...

Edited 2 hours ago by Ishanga

[James123]

1 hour ago, Ishanga said:

No, starting threads like You do is not empowering anyone, it only empowers Your personal Ego, because You think  You know, and sharing like You do makes You feel Good and enhances Your Ego.

If posting and starting threads felt like watching Your child being Tortured, would You do it? No you wouldn't, you would not post and start threads if the feeling was like that, so it feels good for You (and all of Us) to do this game we are doing but in the end it doesn't mean anything and is Ego enhancing, it only maybe helps the new person learning to Seek answers and find Truth, but that is small time Spirituality!!

Spirituality is not empowering anyone. İt is killing that person.

I don't think I know, knowing is the biggest illusion. 

İf someone tortures my son, body will do it's best as breathing, not me.

[Ishanga]

2 minutes ago, James123 said:

Spirituality is not empowering anyone. İt is killing that person.

I don't think I know, knowing is the biggest illusion. 

İf someone tortures my son, body will do it's best as breathing, not me.

Death in Spirituality is Death of the Ego, the false self, the beliefs that ppl hold, the unawareness that is present in their system.. The "Person" is the story of someone's life, the memory of past actions and situations and the residual effect it has on them Now.. This is all Mind Stuff, Mind is past/memory and future/imagination orientated, and the ppl of the world imo are Mind identified, so they are past/future orientated, but past/future does not exist, so that is where the insanity Is!

If You didn't think You knew, then You would post, because You are telling ppl what to do, what not to do according to Your understanding, this is okay, its a free country we are free to express, but when one expresses then push back is expected, and in the end its all Ego games, and gets us know where.

No one in the history of Humanity has become completely transformed via forums, talking/writing/responding back and forth via the forum methodology, again its okay if one is curious in the beginning, they search google, find this place, it peaks their intellectual interest, all fine, but they have to move on, do some real work/sadhana and come to an Inner Realization within themselves that Transforms them, where nothing of the old exists, then one is available to their True Potential of what it means to be Human!

[Breakingthewall]

I think that what @Ishanga tries to say is that @James123 acts to feel he's so cool not to connect and communicate. Its very easy to perceive when someone acts from the flow or from the inflation of the ego. 

The problem is that the one who moves to feel so so special doesn't know it, he really thinks that he's acting for the sake of humanity (that's why he's so cool) , then point it to them never works, they are going to think that you are not awake, jealous, blind, anything. They have the talent to see anything that protect their so cool self image. They can change attitude, change what they think, change what happened, change anything except changing the angle that is focused in the protection of the cool self image

Anyway ishanga, you should know that this behavior is very common, not only in spirituality but in humans in general, then it's better don't try to fix everything but express your truth and try to connect with who's in your frequency if there is anyone 

Edited 1 hour ago by Breakingthewall

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Ishanga said:

 sharing like You do makes You feel Good and enhances Your Ego.

I write because it make me feel good, same that anything that you could do, that's not the point imo, the point is from what angle you are acting, if your energy aim to the expansion or to the contraction . Expansion means openess, communication, connection. Contraction means closeness, self image, exclusion, self. 

All of us have some contraction, it's almost inevitable. If you start a thread a little voice is It's whispering: you're soooooooooo cool. It's extremely difficult to get it to shut up (impossible? Maybe)

The point is to realize how horribly pathetic you are for emitting that energy, and little by little it will diminish. You're pathetic for inflating your ego for one reason: it traps you. It contracts you. It's like the Ring of Sauron, it whispers pleasant things to subdue and enslave you in the darkness. 

Edited 1 hour ago by Breakingthewall

[Ishanga]

3 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I write because it make me feel good, same that anything that you could do, that's not the point imo, the point is from what angle you are acting, if your energy aim to the expansion or to the contraction . Expansion means openess, communication, connection. Contraction means closeness, self image, exclusion, self. 

All of us have some contraction, it's almost inevitable. If you start a thread a little voice is It's whispering: you're soooooooooo cool. It's extremely difficult to get it to shut up (impossible? Maybe)

The point is to realize how horribly pathetic you are for emitting that energy, and little by little it will diminish. You're pathetic for inflating your ego for one reason: it traps you. It contracts you. It's like the Ring of Sauron, it whispers pleasant things to subdue and enslave you in the darkness. 

Yes, this is another way of explaining it..

If Your into Expansion, which is the Desiring process basically, we all want to be More than what We Are right Now correct? This is done in a million ways everyday, but in the end we want to be Boundless and ever Expanding, that is our ultimate Realization and what God means, ever expanding never ending, but we will never get there via intellectual realization and writing, debating, arguing, sharing and such, Sharing is the most empowering as it may inspire, that is all it can do, the individual has to have their own personal Realization or Transformation...

[Breakingthewall]

2 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

we will never get there via intellectual realization and writing, debating, arguing, sharing and such,

I think that writing, debating, contrasting ideas, trying to communicate your vision, and reading the visions others communicate can be very useful for understanding your driving forces, your blocks, and your blind spots, if your intention is expansion. If your intention is contraction, that is, for everyone to see you as great so you can feel great, then it's useless. 

The idea is to make a constant effort to try that communication is as free of ego as possible. Everyone unconsciously lean towards ego time and again, but little by little you become aware of it and refine your energy. The issue isn't where you are, but where you're headed.

For example, everything I just said, I'm really saying to myself. I'm not saying it so you know something; rather, this conversation is an exercise for me to become aware of things, but same time sharing as direct an clean as I can. This is not a conversation like being with a coffee, it's a development of our logic sistem to try to make the barriers as soft as it's possible little by little 

[James123]

1 hour ago, Ishanga said:

If You didn't think You knew, then You would post, because You are telling ppl what to do, what not to do according to Your understanding, this is okay, its a free country we are free to express, but when one expresses then push back is expected, and in the end its all Ego games, and gets us know where

Who gives a f...?

1 hour ago, Ishanga said:

Death in Spirituality is Death of the Ego, the false self, the beliefs that ppl hold, the unawareness that is present in their system..

Death of spirituality is death of any experience, beliefs (including false self).

1 hour ago, Ishanga said:

The "Person" is the story of someone's life, the memory of past actions and situations and the residual effect it has on them Now.. This is all Mind Stuff, Mind is past/memory and future/imagination orientated, and the ppl of the world imo are Mind identified, so they are past/future orientated, but past/future does not exist, so that is where the insanity Is!

Knowledge of "does not exist" belongs to mind and past.

1 hour ago, Ishanga said:

No one in the history of Humanity has become completely transformed via forums, talking/writing/responding back and forth via the forum methodology, again its okay if one is curious in the beginning, they search google, find this place, it peaks their intellectual interest, all fine, but they have to move on, do some real work/sadhana and come to an Inner Realization within themselves that Transforms them, where nothing of the old exists, then one is available to their True Potential of what it means to be Human!

Factory settings of the body is love. Helping in forum, street, plane doesn't matter. 

[Ishanga]

33 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I think that writing, debating, contrasting ideas, trying to communicate your vision, and reading the visions others communicate can be very useful for understanding your driving forces, your blocks, and your blind spots, if your intention is expansion. If your intention is contraction, that is, for everyone to see you as great so you can feel great, then it's useless. 

The idea is to make a constant effort to try that communication is as free of ego as possible. Everyone unconsciously lean towards ego time and again, but little by little you become aware of it and refine your energy. The issue isn't where you are, but where you're headed.

For example, everything I just said, I'm really saying to myself. I'm not saying it so you know something; rather, this conversation is an exercise for me to become aware of things, but same time sharing as direct an clean as I can. This is not a conversation like being with a coffee, it's a development of our logic sistem to try to make the barriers as soft as it's possible little by little 

Yes agreed, I use this forum for Entertainment and too expose my Ego more to Me, I find out what triggers me then observe it and dissolve in little by little, then there will be a time that I don't care what anyone says in certain contexts and such, then the need to argue will go, even the need to share via this way of doing so will go away.  Then life is at Ease, then it opens up and more Potentials arise from that, transformation begins!!

[Breakingthewall]

15 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

Yes agreed, I use this forum for Entertainment and too expose my Ego more to Me, I find out what triggers me then observe it and dissolve in little by little, then there will be a time that I don't care what anyone says in certain contexts and such, then the need to argue will go, even the need to share via this way of doing so will go away.  Then life is at Ease, then it opens up and more Potentials arise from that, transformation begins!!

On the other hand, there are points that I see as very clear, very obvious, so I share them here to see if anyone connects with . The issue of spirituality is still to be clearly formulated; no one has ever done it. I'm not prepared to do that; I would need a more stable level of openness and more discipline and order. So all I can do is share some ideas here. But where is who can transmitt this properly? Sadhguru? I can't believe what he says about rivers of energy, past lifes and 84 universes. Maybe his work is absolutely positive, but his view is dissonant for me. Where is the one with the clarity?

Edited 4 minutes ago by Breakingthewall

[Ishanga]

6 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

On the other hand, there are points that I see as very clear, very obvious, so I share them here to see if anyone connects with . The issue of spirituality is still to be clearly formulated; no one has ever done it. I'm not prepared to do that; I would need a more stable level of openness and more discipline and order. So all I can do is share some ideas here. 

Sharing is fine, addiction to Intellect and believing it is the be all end all is no so fine, its start but not an end... So all the sharing is okay, concluding is not so okay when it comes to Spiritual matters, Reality, God/Absolute and such things.  Its okay to conclude that I have to be careful crossing a busy highway, that is obvious, but not so obvious when it comes to the Absolute and the filtering down to our level as Human Beings on this dual, karmic planet...