Only way to Truth, and great conversation with Mellowmarsh

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, zazen said:

The vantage point is made of the Absolute, but doesn’t encompass the Absolute. A vantage point is finite by definition, whilst the Absolute is limitless. But this limitless includes the capacity for self-limitation - because a limitless that couldn’t express as a limit would in fact be limited.

The specific manifestation, the self, the vantage point, whatever we call it, is made of the essence of the absolute, but also of the totality of form. I think it's important to see this. This doesn't mean there aren't more vantage points, but rather that the center is an energetic construct, an "illusion" (a misleading word), and what you are contains the totality of form. The gears that make you move are in the cosmos in its entirety. A butterfly flaps its wings in the parallel universe xj12700, and you think that your neighbor is hot.  Everything is totally interconnected; nothing is separate, neither in essence nor in form. Or if you prefer, a thought about your neighbor appears creating a center of tension that wants, a self, and that self , with wanting, is the cause of a limitless line of effects 

2 hours ago, zazen said:

Even Hallaj was from that same environment. When he claimed “I am truth” there was no “I” making the claim. It wasn’t as a an ego identifying itself as the total, but more so realizing that there is nothing but the truth

Well, I'd say both. There is nothing but the truth, so the self that perceives itself as a center recognizes that's a energetic temporary construction, a tensional node, then it claims: I really am something different in structure and essence that what seems, I am the totality in all senses. "I" because there is a point that "know", a knowledge happening. It's the same if it's not "real", it is. 

2 hours ago, zazen said:

It threatened power political and religious because it would imply bypassing both - even if it’s a matter of fact.

Sure, because religion didn't aim to freedom but to control, same than now. I don't mean that was wrong, was necessary to build civilization, but it's necessary now? I think it's a hindrance 

2 hours ago, zazen said:

people are conflating or arguing between seeing (being open), understanding (interpretation)

Mostly are only in understanding without seeing, and understanding according them is realizing that what they watched in the videos is true. They use psychedelic to understand. It's like using alcohol to drive moto GP. Psychedelic are for dissolve energetic blockages, relaxation of the tensional node that is the center of perception to perceive those blockages, and to have moments of openess to the absolute nature, then sending a message to the blockages: you can relax, stop controlling so hard, there is not a threat, there is the totality and you are that. It's the only way to make them relax little by little . For understanding, better than psychedelics, study quantum physics. 

 

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Breakingthewall

[gettoefl]

When I see a tree, I see the form. Form is paper over the formless bottomless absolute essence. How to realize and experience this? Forgiveness of the specific tree. I birth the form, I ditch the form. I placed the tree there for a reason. Well many reasons in fact. But only one is important. The tree is exhibit one that I am a separate form. I launched it from my mind to serve that very purpose - to convince me of and entrench me in separation. No I am wrong about that and have pretended for too long. Me and tree are both the same thing - finite forms opening to the infinite formless. I now forgive myself for the self deception of making a universe of separation devices. I at last awaken to the glory of the absolute essence that I am.

Edited 52 minutes ago by gettoefl

[Ishanga]

Going on and on talking about it, sharing or starting threads/posts about it, none of it is IT, talking takes you further away from it, debating about is the same, agreeing about it is the same you only create a Tribe doing that..

Forums are only good for Beginners, absolute Seekers, Seekers are like a 4 yr old going to Kindergarten for the first time, that is what all these Threads, Talking back and forth is, Kindergarten Understanding, Kindergarten Experience, Kindergarten Spiritual Growth... but there is all the rest of it to go thru, Middle School, High School, College or University and Life itself can all teach You and we must progress thru it all to have a complete Life, not staying in Kindergarten!  

Edited 55 minutes ago by Ishanga

[James123]

6 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

Going on and on talking about it, sharing or starting threads/posts about it, none of it is IT, talking takes you further away from it,

No. Exactly opposite. That mean is not chasing, taking an action etc...

When one simply digests (none of is it), one simply stops. 

That's what the core of all spiritual practices.

[Ishanga]

13 minutes ago, James123 said:

No. Exactly opposite. That mean is not chasing, taking an action etc...

When one simply digests (none of is it), one simply stops. 

That's what the core of all spiritual practices.

No, starting threads like You do is not empowering anyone, it only empowers Your personal Ego, because You think  You know, and sharing like You do makes You feel Good and enhances Your Ego.

If posting and starting threads felt like watching Your child being Tortured, would You do it? No you wouldn't, you would not post and start threads if the feeling was like that, so it feels good for You (and all of Us) to do this game we are doing but in the end it doesn't mean anything and is Ego enhancing, it only maybe helps the new person learning to Seek answers and find Truth, but that is small time Spirituality!!

[Natasha Tori Maru]

14 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

No, starting threads like You do is not empowering anyone, it only empowers Your personal Ego, because You think  You know, and sharing like You do makes You feel Good and enhances Your Ego.

It is ego again, hiding in a new form not yet identified. You are trying to show someone how they have been tricked by ego again - very very difficult. I admire the efforts 🙏

There is a lot of 'telling' and not a lot of guiding ... A lot of attachment to the one who tells... 

[Ishanga]

7 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

It is ego again, hiding in a new form not yet identified. You are trying to show someone how they have been tricked by ego again - very very difficult. I admire the efforts 🙏

There is a lot of 'telling' and not a lot of guiding ... A lot of attachment to the one who tells... 

Yes its Ego, all of this is Ego, but I am Aware of this Ego, and the Intention is correct, to help others have some sense of Who they Are.. Yes I think James123 has that intent too, but he is unaware of the Ego, how do I know? The amount of threads started and such, for some reason they get traction here, which is ego based as well..

If Ego did not exist in us, then no socializing would happen, which is what forums are, socializing in a sense... But there has to be a Balance to it all, I have no problems with forums but ppl get addicted to it and are on here many many hours a day scrolling, reading, participating or not, and in the end it will get you nowhere if Your truly wanting to Maximise Your Potential and find out what it means to be Human! 

That process is done internally, and its quiet and one generally uses time proven methods to do this, like learning how to Sit, Stand, Walk, Think, Breath and basics like this, too much intellectually pursuing truth in our day and age gets one further away from Truth imo!

I could leave this forum, never come here again, never participate no problem today...

Edited 4 minutes ago by Ishanga