Only way to Truth, and great conversation with Mellowmarsh

[James123]

  1 hour ago, Mellowmarsh said:

There is no i, no you, no we, no life. Everything is one. The rest is story, beliefs. 

• When this deeply known (actually known is a wrong word, I don't know how to explain) maybe correct word is deeply digested, then there is no question arises "who am I etc...""" or answer arises "I am god etc..".

 

  1 hour ago, Mellowmarsh said:

The belief of God is once removed as the dissolution of illusory relationship.

• Exactly. But not actually removed, but dropped, surrendered.

 

  1 hour ago, Mellowmarsh said:

Without a need to constantly remain attached to ideas and beliefs, the clarity of your formless form recognises the truth of itself - with nothing to confirm or ever deny.

• Exactly. It is You, but it has no name, explanation, birth, death, experience.

 

Anything that we came to this day happens via mind / action. When mind drops, what is there?

• Any attempt to find an answer via book, video, via experience, action etc.. belongs to mind.
• In this universe non of the things that can help to find it. Universe / existence is the matrix. 
• Matrix must be surrendered and entire matrix is based on action.
• Only way is actionless. Not even trying to meditate or trying to reach psychedelics to realize something. 

That's what real meditation is, and with real meditation Ultimate Truth is always there, here, Now.

Best Regards 

[Mellowmarsh]

11 hours ago, James123 said:

That's what real meditation is, and with real meditation Ultimate Truth is always there, here, Now.

Yes, that’s it.
Attunement is the key. 
After all, we’re all the same one awareness behind each of all our projection screens,  serve only as our own personal models of reality, which is just noise and drama, and not our true being.

 

All the one love action dreaming difference where there is none. ❤️

[Breakingthewall]

16 hours ago, James123 said:

• Any attempt to find an answer via book, video, via experience, action etc.. belongs to mind.
• In this universe non of the things that can help to find it. Universe / existence is the matrix. 

The thing is that the mind and the matrix is the absolute. Everything that appears is that. The mind is extremely difficult to align, but it's possible. 

Reality always manifests itself, and now it is manifesting as your mind. That mind originates from structures focused on survival and reproduction, which in human beings unfold in countless nuances.

That mind is the structure of the universe in a hyper-complex form that has the potential to perceive its absolute nature. No mind is impossible now because you are now a mind. You may believe your mind is silent, but it is operating, comparing, evaluating, at subconscious levels. The slightest deception, such as assuming the mind is "something else," closes the door. It's very subtle.

The mind is what perceives the absolute. Without a mind, you are unaware of anything, in fact you are a mind now. The mind is "knowing" in the sense of perceiving, of being conscious. Without a mind, you are not conscious. Then the mind is the eye of the absolute perceiving itself, so deny de mind is a door that closes.

The mind is what creates time and separation, then consciousness arises. No time and no separation is impossible being a mind but transparent time and separation is possible.

The mind has to operate without center and without contraction. The problem is that the emotional sistem is contraction that creates a center so a movement is needed, a very deep change that reformulate all the emotional structure, and the only way to do that is achieving moments of total openness. Day by day, month after month, the mind restructure itself until it's transparent, not contracted, then it's a mirror of the absolute 

Edited 10 hours ago by Breakingthewall

[VeganAwake]

The sense of self/illusion/ego is very stubborn and sneaky. It's illusory survival tactic will even attempt to identify as nothing or the unnamable or as everything/infinity/god or whatever............this is a super common phenomenon when there is a spirituality background...... I have heard it referred to as Spiritual Ego.

It doesn't want to die, it simply cant recognize its own unreality. It attempts to survive in every way possible......trust!

Recognition doesn't require a witness or an owner. Thats the shocker!

There isn't a true self or higher self or unnamed self or true nature self or infinite self or invisible self or dualistic self or relative self

All selves are an illusion attempting to remain intact.........it's just an identification preservation tactic of something that's already not there!

This phenomenon is either clearly recognized, or it isn't. 

Even the slightest sliver of self identification is being completely asleep.

Enlightenment is when it is absolutely clear that this self illusion was never there from the start. It was always unreal. 

It's not a denial or bypass or brainwashing or disattchment process.

Either it's clearly seen to have never been or it is not.......end of story!

💞

[Someone here]

@VeganAwake what a load of nonsense man 😂. 

Existence doesn't exist ? 

Please notice this ..nothing can be called an illusion 100%. It has to be both illusion and reality .if its illusory 100% then how does it exist at all even as an illusion ?

 

[Breakingthewall]

57 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

Enlightenment is when it is absolutely clear that this self illusion was never there from the start. It was always unreal. 

Perhaps you're the one who doesn't understand what the self is. It's real, as a self, just as the body is real. The self creates experience by dividing reality into sections in order to operate; it's an energetic software.

If you transcend the self, you realize that reality is total, without divisions, absolute. But the one who realizes this is the self, which recognizes itself as a construction that is occurring. It's not unreal; the idea of "unreal" comes from the self trying to divide things into real and unreal. Nothing is unreal; reality is

[zazen]

@Breakingthewall Agreed. I think many spiritualists make that error - to deny this reality for the Ultimate reality. It’s the opposite mistake materialists make. Maya doesn’t mean the world doesn’t exist but that it isn’t as it appears on the surface.

But veganawake has a point when people identify as the total or as God. It’s tricky and subtle - we are of God, in God - but not God in totality, only as a locality.

The finite can’t claim to be the infinite - only from the infinite. Literalist religions deny that we even come out the infinite or God and that we are “thrown” into the world from elsewhere, by God. But their notions of blasphemy also have a point at protecting the half truth that is of keeping the transcendent - transcendent and total.

We can’t be transcendent, or even transcend anything - because that means no more form or manifestation. We can only transform within the form we already exist in - by awareness of and orientation towards the transcendent.

This way we keep a healthy balance between the transcendence and immanence. Absolute-infinite conciousness-ground of being or simply God, is transcendent (total) and also immanent (local, intimate, permeating all manifestation in essence). Jewish Kabbala and Islam both contain concepts regarding this. GOATED metaphysics.

The wave isn’t the ocean but is oceanic - we aren’t God but are godly. The Quran states “God encompasses all” to which Ibn Arabi adds “nothing encompasses Him”.

The total becomes local, the infinite contains the possibility of the finite, and from the eternal arises the temporal.

I also think the term dual and non-dual get slippery. Because once we say non-dual - its opposite must exist. I think differentiation is a better term - One reality (whatever we wanna call it - Absolute, infinite conciousness, God, Ground of Being etc) differentiating and localising itself. No question of duality even existing in that sense, only as a relative phenomenon. God is the only reality - we are just the localised point of God.

 

Edited 2 hours ago by zazen

[Ramasta9]

Don't forget to take a cookie

[Breakingthewall]

@zazen 

You are not a drop in the ocean

You are the ocean in a drop 

Rumi

Or if you prefer:

Ana al haqq. I am the truth. 

Al Hallaj. The purest mystic, the one who's direct as an arrow, the one who's open to the absolute and is one with it. 

Ana al haqq , let's analize

"I". Who? No one? No, I, that is, that exists :"Sat"

"Am". That stands out, that appears, that knows itself: "Chit"

"The truth". the totality, the openness, the absolute without edges, center or bottom. The absolute freedom, the absolute glory: "Ananda"

 

[James123]

23 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

The truth". the totality, the openness, the absolute without edges, center or bottom. The absolute freedom, the absolute glory: "Ananda"

 

Don't forget, being totally open is to dropping all knowledge, beliefs, experiences about the Self, which is above.

That's only way to Be. Completely naked, empty (empty of anything and everything, including emptiness).

 

[James123]

7 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

The thing is that the mind and the matrix is the absolute. Everything that appears is that. The mind is extremely difficult to align, but it's possible. 

No. İt is not. 

Leg appears as leg, body appears as body. Body feels pain, harmony, joy.

Bird flies, sun arises. 

You are none. 

You are which all beyond. Everything and anything arises and falls within You.

What you say is bs.

Because, if what you say is true, arm and tree are identical. İf it is;

Put the hand on fire and see.

[Breakingthewall]

59 minutes ago, James123 said:

No. İt is not. 

Leg appears as leg, body appears as body. Body feels pain, harmony, joy.

Bird flies, sun arises. 

You are none. 

You are which all beyond. Everything and anything arises and falls within You.

What you say is bs.

Because, if what you say is true, arm and tree are identical. İf it is;

Put the hand on fire and see.

God takes you from one feeling to another and teaches you through opposites, so that you have two wings to fly, not one.

Rumi

 

It means that duality is the expression of the absolute; it is the absolute made form, within form, the totality dances. And the human mind is the dance and the eye that perceives it in all its depth. Don't you want to open that eye? It's your choice.

Edited 2 hours ago by Breakingthewall

[James123]

19 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

God takes you from one feeling to another and teaches you through opposites, so that you have two wings to fly, not one.

This mean is not God is wings.

Wings belongs to God, but not it.

20 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

It means that duality is the expression of the absolute; it is the absolute made form, within form, the totality dances. And the human mind is the dance and the eye that perceives it in all its depth. Don't you want to open that eye? It's your choice.

Eye belong to body, not me.

[Breakingthewall]

11 minutes ago, James123 said:

Eye belong to body, not me.

Maybe you could break the separation between the body and you 

[James123]

1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

Maybe you could break the separation between the body and you 

Breaking separation belongs to body and mind.