Is mathematics invented or discovered ?

[Carl-Richard]

4 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

No matter how many times it's said, we continue to operate from within a world of language, and so we have a hard time stepping out of it and seeing its true influence.

Oh wow, it's almost like we're in a human body right now and we can't talk about the human body without being in a human body, so it shapes how we talk about it. Or like how we're in a community right now so it shapes how we talk about the community. Or we're conforming so it shapes how we talk about conformism. Self-reference is not deep.

[Human Mint]

4 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Telepathy would reduce our reliance on language and dissolve a lot of barriers of connection we face. Just as a little thought example

And that is to say language is a lesser degree of consciousness than telepathy. We use language because we are too dumb for telepathy

[UnbornTao]

9 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

And even within language itself - the words that are symbols do not have inherent meaning without context. 

I resonate with @UnbornTao here - language is really profound and has shaped us more than we can fully comprehend.

Even down to individuation. If we were a telepathic species the consequences of how we would be expressed as unique individuals would be so different due to the absence of language and its limits & rules. We are very isolated within our own little bubbles of awareness - language acts to attempt to breach that and facilitate intimacy. Telepathy would reduce our reliance on language and dissolve a lot of barriers of connection we face. Just as a little thought example  

Sure, though telepathy would still be based on this possibility.

For example, what form would telepathy take? Likely some sort of thought-form, which would be enabled by language - at least to a large degree, it seems to me. The very notion of conveying something wouldn't even occur without language.

[UnbornTao]

5 hours ago, Human Mint said:

In music when you compose a melody you try to play with a simple idea. Then you rotate it verticaly, horizontaly, you transpose it, you can stretch it, you can create two voices of it. You are playing with symethry, it is literally drawing if you write in musical notation. It is like geometry. 

Math is not different. 

What about language?

[Natasha Tori Maru]

2 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

Sure, though telepathy would still be based on this possibility.

For example, what form would telepathy take? Likely some sort of thought-form, which would be enabled by language - at least to a large degree, it seems to me. The very notion of conveying something wouldn't even occur without language.

Images? And motion image memory?

If we go down this road.... We will need to define language and how loose or tight we want to be with it. Language is so embedded into us, I struggle to imagine how I might interpret someone's telepathy memory...

Is a clap language? 🤪

Edited 2 hours ago by Natasha Tori Maru

[UnbornTao]

5 hours ago, Human Mint said:

You are assuming people use language for expanding their consciousness. Laughable.

It does enable entire realities. You couldn't be communicating here and exchanging ideas without it.

And worse still, there couldn't be videos from Leo

We might ask: What is the purpose of language? and dwell on that. But then again, we don't really experience what language itself is, so by asking what its purpose is, we might be putting the cart before the horse.

Edited 2 hours ago by UnbornTao

[Natasha Tori Maru]

5 hours ago, Human Mint said:

And that is to say language is a lesser degree of consciousness than telepathy. We use language because we are too dumb for telepathy

By what metric is it better? You can write something down to be recalled or for some permanence. This requires language / text.

I do not imagine this could be done with telepathy. 

[Salvijus]

8 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

 

I do not imagine this could be done with telepathy. 

You could leave thought forms maybe. Some of these autistic telepathy kids know what you were feeling and thinking in a distant past aswell. 

Edited 2 hours ago by Salvijus

[Salvijus]

The right question to ask is not what language is but what communication is. Can you express something without words? Can you express something without anything just by your very existence? Actually without the use of symbols, body, thoughts you can express that you are love and I love you. Just by the process of existing, you're communicating that always via your vibration. It's synonyms with the I AM presence. That process of reverberation is the first universal language and those are your first words.

"In the beginning was the Word (I am love and I love you), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God (I AM presence) . " ~bible 

Edited 3 minutes ago by Salvijus