Is mathematics invented or discovered ?

[UnbornTao]

1 hour ago, Salvijus said:

Language is a means of transmitting information. The universal language of creation is energy. Everything and everyone always exude energy and is sending a message. Whether you translate that messege into words or symbols or art or mathematics is secondary. The messenge itself is existencial. 

Where does the message exist without any activity or set of activities being undertaken by someone or something? 

[Salvijus]

45 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

Where does the message exist without any activity or set of activities being undertaken by someone or something? 

Existence is activity. Activity is eternal. 

[UnbornTao]

1 hour ago, Salvijus said:

Existence is activity. Activity is eternal. 

How come? Prior to any activity, existence is. By definition, it is the basis or condition for anything to exist. We can imagine that it isn's subject to any particular process; rather, it is what gives rise to the very possibility of things unfolding. 

What is an experience of "existence" with no language? What is language - without taking it for granted or considering it as a secondary or trivial thing? Can "message", "information", or "communication" exist without language?

[Jodistrict]

 

Complex numbers were invented long before they were discovered to be useful in engineering. It seems to be a creative act.  On the other hand, isn’t there something about  “2 + 2 = 4” which is real even without humans? 

In most countries, you can’t patent a mathematical formula do to the general rule:

“Mathematical formulas, laws of nature, and abstract ideas are considered discoveries of pre-existing truth, not human inventions”.

[UnbornTao]

13 hours ago, Jodistrict said:

 

Complex numbers were invented long before they were discovered to be useful in engineering. It seems to be a creative act.  On the other hand, isn’t there something about  “2 + 2 = 4” which is real even without humans? 

In most countries, you can’t patent a mathematical formula do to the general rule:

“Mathematical formulas, laws of nature, and abstract ideas are considered discoveries of pre-existing truth, not human inventions”.

Just some questions to add to your post: Where is "two" found in the first place? What underlies the seemingly obvious and evident recognition of "two distinct things" in reality - something made, perceived, or interpreted by us?

Edited 4 hours ago by UnbornTao

[Salvijus]

10 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

How come? Prior to any activity, existence is.

Existence is. Exactly. It's alive. And to be alive is an activity in itself. 

Edited 7 hours ago by Salvijus

[Salvijus]

11 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

What is an experience of "existence" with no language?

The experience of being alive. 

11 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

What is language

A form of communication.

For example, music is a language. You can communate your feelings through melodies. 

11 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

Can "message", "information", or "communication" exist without language?

A language of energy is universal. And energy is not an invention. 

"If you want to understand everything in the universe, think in terms of energy, frequency, and vibration" ~Nikola Tesla

Edited 6 hours ago by Salvijus

[UnbornTao]

2 hours ago, Salvijus said:

Existence is. Exactly. It's alive. And to be alive is an activity in itself. 

Based on that, your claim should be more like: life is occurring, rather than "existence is." We could say that existence comes prior to life, this being a process enabled by the former. You seem to want to claim that the canvas shares the quality of invention of the painting - as if the canvas were also a result of the painting or of the act of painting.

[Salvijus]

22 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

You seem to want to claim that the canvas shares the quality of invention of the painting - as if the canvas were also a result of the painting or of the act of painting.

Canvas is the painter. And he's always alive. The painting is an extension of the painter. 

Edited 4 hours ago by Salvijus

[UnbornTao]

This would require a much more involved effort on our part. Some food for thought:

2 hours ago, Salvijus said:

The experience of being alive. 

Okay. And what's that?

Notice it's mostly taken for granted. You seem to think that language is just a "commentary" or side note layered on top of your personal experience of reality - as if they were distinctly and unequivocally separate.

Try to remove the invention of language from your experience. Imagine what life was like prior to its invention. This is a significant meditation. For example, would your experience of thinking and taking to yourself be the same? Could you even think without language? 

2 hours ago, Salvijus said:

A form of communication.

For example, music is a language. You can communate your feelings through melodies. 

A language of energy is universal. And energy is not an invention. 

"If you want to understand everything in the universe, think in terms of energy, frequency, and vibration" ~Nikola Tesla

Then again, how could communication exist without having language as a possibility or context? 

What makes a symbol possible? How can something like a sound come to represent something that is not itself that sound?

Can you unpack what you mean by energy and "language is energy"? If your claim is that language is universal and not invented, I'll have to disagree with that.

[Salvijus]

15 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

Could you even think without language? 

A baby knows when he/she is hungry without language. And knows how to express it even. Even plants communicate with each other without language. They just understand each other through energy and resonance. This language of resonance is universal and not invented. 

Edited 3 hours ago by Salvijus

[Salvijus]

14 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

Okay. And what's that?

It needs no description. 

[Salvijus]

20 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

Can you unpack what you mean by energy and "language is energy"?

"Your vibe says everything about you and it never lies"

Edited 3 hours ago by Salvijus