Enlightenment is much rarer than most expect

[Someone here]

23 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Yes, in self-help they say that the past is imaginary, since you are imagining it. Where is it? Can you touch it? No? That means it doesn't exist!! Ta-da! Immediate Nobel Prize for the gentleman!!!

 This is a logical fallacy . Ridiculing your opponent's argument without actually Arguing against it .

don't use sarcasm...  Prove the past exists

Good luck 🤞 .

[Breakingthewall]

43 minutes ago, Someone here said:

 This is a logical fallacy . Ridiculing your opponent's argument without actually Arguing against it .

don't use sarcasm...  Prove the past exists

Good luck 🤞 .

Easy, the present exist, what create the present if not the past?

I can't avoid the sarcasm given certain arguments that are taken for granted in spirituality, but it is true that this is not the way

[Someone here]

4 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Easy, the present exist, what create the present if not the past?

I can't avoid the sarcasm given certain arguments that are taken for granted in spirituality, but it is true that this is not the way

Nope .false. the present did not come from the past ..the past is being imagined in the present.  

The present exists ..here it is! 

Show me the past ! There is no past here dude..look around If you don't believe me.

[Breakingthewall]

2 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Nope .false. the present did not come from the past ..the past is being imagined in the present.  

The present exists ..here it is! 

Show me the past ! There is no past here dude..look around If you don't believe me.

I look around and see constant change; every movement produces another movement. Therefore, it is absolutely true that every movement comes from another movement. The human mind understands causality and creates the timeline.

The fact that it is always now does not mean that this now does not come from another now that is not now, but was. Time is the mental representation of the causality 

[Someone here]

@Breakingthewall you're basically saying if the present did not come from the past then where did it come from ?

It didn't "come ". Its eternal.  Its just there

 . Confront the mystery. Don't bother with how solipsistic and crazy this is as long as it is what is obvious and true .

[Breakingthewall]

22 minutes ago, Someone here said:

@Breakingthewall you're basically saying if the present did not come from the past then where did it come from ?

It didn't "come ". Its eternal.  Its just there

 . Confront the mystery. Don't bother with how solipsistic and crazy this is as long as it is what is obvious and true .

35 minutes ago, Someone here said:

 

Im saying that existence is change and change produces change, then any change comes from change. 

[Someone here]

6 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Im saying that existence is change and change produces change, then any change comes from change. 

@Breakingthewall I'm not saying this is false .but you seem very attached to logic .like if this is that then that is that and so forth . Logic isn't what it's all cracked up to be. Common go get wasted on some Salvia and logic flies out the window. 

You are bringing logic and deduction into table .whereas I'm not inventing anything. I'm just saying this present moment here is obvious. The rest is fantasy land.

[Breakingthewall]

18 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Common go get wasted on some Salvia and logic flies out the window. 

Salvia is absolutely logical in a different logic. Reality is logical. 

 

19 minutes ago, Someone here said:

saying this present moment here is obvious. The rest is fantasy land.

It's one thing to be open to vitality, to the source of this living moment, and another to understand the becoming.

Spirituality tells you that you can't understand because everything is an illusion, but that's irrelevant; call it an illusion if you want, but it's an absolutely logical illusion. Everything is logical, because logic means relationship, and reality is relationship, and relationship is change

[cetus]

Anyone else notice as far as enlightenment goes the one thing for sure is that everyone has a different perspective of it?

[Princess Arabia]

10 minutes ago, cetus said:

Anyone else notice as far as enlightenment goes the one thing for sure is that everyone has a different perspective of it?

Well, what do you expect, nothing is real. 

[James123]

14 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

Well, what do you expect, nothing is real. 

No. If it was the case, you wouldn't know that there is such a thing as real or not real.

[Carl-Richard]

33 minutes ago, James123 said:

No. If it was the case, you wouldn't know that there is such a thing as real or not real.

You guys are literally stage blue, I don't know what to say.

It's not that hard to realize there are different ways to frame a thing.

I could've said "life is like a dream" and you will unironically answer "no, because if that was the case, you wouldn't be awake right now". This is the crux of 90% of you guy's conversations @James123 @Breakingthewall, arbitrarily asserting frames. A substantial disagreement requires at least two statements from each party. You'll just assert your frame whenever, doesn't matter if it makes zero difference.

And by the way, here's a frame: nothing is real or unreal. That's a frame you're asserting.

Edited 3 hours ago by Carl-Richard

[Breakingthewall]

34 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

You guys are literally stage blue, I don't know what to say.

It's not that hard to realize there are different ways to frame a thing.

I could've said "life is like a dream" and you will unironically answer "no, because if that was the case, you wouldn't be awake right now". This is the crux of 90% of you guy's conversations @James123 @Breakingthewall, arbitrarily asserting frames. A substantial disagreement requires at least two statements from each party. You'll just assert your frame whenever, doesn't matter if it makes zero difference.

And by the way, here's a frame: nothing is real or unreal. That's a frame you're asserting.

I think that you don't understand what I'm saying, then maybe you could avoid those judgements , but anyway....do as you want 

[VeganAwake]

1 hour ago, cetus said:

Anyone else notice as far as enlightenment goes the one thing for sure is that everyone has a different perspective of it?

It's like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're gonna get. 😁

[Someone here]

@Carl-Richard mister know-it-all himself have spoken the final word .

"Nothing is real or unreal " . That's sophistry nonsense. 

If nothing is real or unreal or this or that then you are basically are saying  shut up guys and drop words and dichotomies and realize its all a word game we are playing here for entertainment .

[Carl-Richard]

13 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I think that you don't understand what I'm saying, then maybe you could avoid those judgements , but anyway....do as you want 

 

On 1.11.2025 at 0:47 PM, Carl-Richard said:

On 1.11.2025 at 0:03 PM, Breakingthewall said:

First, as you said before, we need to be clear about what the term "consciousness" means to us. Let's say it means being aware, perceiving. Do you agree?

Being aware, as in being awareness. Being aware as in a subject perceiving an object, no.

 

On 1.11.2025 at 0:03 PM, Breakingthewall said:

Then, this would imply that without something to be conscious of, there would be no consciousness.

What you're doing is assuming a definition and then post-hoc trying to explain it using logic, but the logic actually doesn't do anything because you just assumed the definition without any logic. You're ironically being entirely illogical in what you're doing.

This is what you're doing in most threads. You're free to do whatever but don't expect anyone to take it seriously.

Edited 2 hours ago by Carl-Richard

[Carl-Richard]

4 minutes ago, Someone here said:

@Carl-Richard mister know-it-all himself have spoken the final word .

"Nothing is real or unreal " . That's sophistry nonsense. 

If nothing is real or unreal or this or that then you are basically are saying  shut up guys and drop words and dichotomies and realize its all a word game we are playing here for entertainment .

Life is like a dream.

[James123]

58 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

You guys are literally stage blue, I don't know what to say.

It's not that hard to realize there are different ways to frame a thing.

I could've said "life is like a dream" and you will unironically answer "no, because if that was the case, you wouldn't be awake right now". This is the crux of 90% of you guy's conversations @James123 @Breakingthewall, arbitrarily asserting frames. A substantial disagreement requires at least two statements from each party. You'll just assert your frame whenever, doesn't matter if it makes zero difference.

And by the way, here's a frame: nothing is real or unreal. That's a frame you're asserting.

Exactly, there is no difference. 

When you say, you are stage red, it is just an assumption, therefore bs.

Anything and everything arises and falls within (even your bs).

[Breakingthewall]

12 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

 

This is what you're doing in most threads. You're free to do whatever but don't expect anyone to take it seriously.

58 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

 

Then, where is the mistake? I was just talking about the term consciousness. I hope it doesn't make you angry . You are so strict. How to make you happy? I'm getting anxious.

[Someone here]

Whatever .it seems silly to go down that road with this conversation so I will step outside .

Carl-Richard and Breakingthewall ..do a fucking face reveal . I've been communicating with two people for 7 years now on daily basis and I have no idea how they look like. Its very uncomfortable. Why staying anonymous forever ? I don't get it .what are you afraid of .whatever .

5 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Life is like a dream.

Perfect .you've grown some teeth and learned how to act like Nahm. Nice work 😉