What is Happiness?

[Princess Arabia]

8 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

I didn’t know I was an emotion, I thought it was me that notices 

Maybe that’s why people say “I am happy” 😂

I keep telling you there's no you already. Life shows us this from time to time but it cannot be seen because the fictitious you is always at the forefront of everything that appears. Drop the you and it's simply an emotion that's arising but for or from no one. This isn't a lessen to be learnt or taught only intuited or sensed. This is why there's no understanding of this. What do you think the ego is. Go investigate that. A bunch of stories, ideas, ideologies, beliefs that are run by emotions.

[UnbornTao]

6 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

It’s funny this summer was first time I was stung by wasp I’ve always been curious how it feels (not bad) so it was kinda fun experience. Shows how you can reframe things in your mind 

I am conscious of myself, of form, thoughts, a world etc. I am aware of a reality, but it doesn’t say much about the nature of it. Because I’m a little crazy like that, I believe we can’t even prove there’s a real reality at all. I could say that, there is something that has the ability to “appear as if” there is a real reality, but that something could as well be “nothing”. If I wanna go deeper into this (I’m not so focused on awakening in this current phase of my life honestly ) then it would be reasonable to investigate existence, in particular ourself

We can sometimes think of happiness like a “wave” of pleasant feeling that comes, but then it passes. But as you say it might be possible to access a more long lasting, “static” happiness . And as you say that’s maybe impossible to fully access when you’re identified as the human self because you’re limited to human psychology 

I agree, while a human (as the ego) might not be able access that “enlightened bliss”,

I wouldn't be so quick to presume what being conscious means in this context. You may be referring to being aware or cognizing things. Realizing what something is is direct. That's something to find out for oneself.

It's about the truth of you now, so why separate that from our so-called "real life"? Questioning can occur at any time and under any circumstances. This may help shift our relationship to how we experience things - or reframe them, as you said.

Doesn't the subtext of this whole thread suggest that we don't actually know what happiness is in an existential sense? We still reduce it to an achievement within the realm of survival. This isn't to imply that "being happy all the time" is realistic for most people, or even that it's what we imagine it to be. In that sense, it's more about "freedom."

There's no reason why we couldn't be happy in that regard. Simply realize you are complete now - it isn't elsewhere or separate from you.

6 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

we can access every day life happiness that can be supported by good habits…

Definitely. This includes training how we use our minds - not engaging in disempowering thoughts or actions. This suggests that happiness may actually be our natural condition, as hard as it might be to see in the midst of daily life.

In any case, it's better to set everything aside and begin investigating the matter from scratch.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

We be sure not to conflate pleasure and it's obtainment as happiness. Many people are not able to perceive the difference: 

 

[Sugarcoat]

5 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

Yes, I agree with that. The pursuit of happiness, though, is a different thing because pursuit is not the same thing as a response. One cannot be happy regardless of circumstances through a process or practice as there is no guarantee now the body will respond in unexpected circumstances one has never been confronted with before. 

I guess it’s also quite individual for the person, what causes them happiness

[Sugarcoat]

5 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

I keep telling you there's no you already. Life shows us this from time to time but it cannot be seen because the fictitious you is always at the forefront of everything that appears. Drop the you and it's simply an emotion that's arising but for or from no one. This isn't a lessen to be learnt or taught only intuited or sensed. This is why there's no understanding of this. What do you think the ego is. Go investigate that. A bunch of stories, ideas, ideologies, beliefs that are run by emotions.

I think it’s realistic to believe that for most seeing the unreality of the self is very difficult 

[Sugarcoat]

1 hour ago, UnbornTao said:

I wouldn't be so quick to presume what being conscious means in this context. You may be referring to being aware or cognizing things. Realizing what something is is direct. That's something to find out for oneself.

It's about the truth of you now, so why separate that from our so-called "real life"? Questioning can occur at any time and under any circumstances. This may help shift our relationship to how we experience things - or reframe them, as you said.

Doesn't the subtext of this whole thread suggest that we don't actually know what happiness is in an existential sense? We still reduce it to an achievement within the realm of survival. This isn't to imply that "being happy all the time" is realistic for most people, or even that it's what we imagine it to be. In that sense, it's more about "freedom."

There's no reason why we couldn't be happy in that regard. Simply realize you are complete now - it isn't elsewhere or separate from you.

Definitely. This includes training how we use our minds - not engaging in disempowering thoughts or actions. This suggests that happiness may actually be our natural condition, as hard as it might be to see in the midst of daily life.

In any case, it's better to set everything aside and begin investigating the matter from scratch.

Being conscious and aware is duality to me. It’s this human experience 

I agree we don’t need to consider enlightenment a pursuit separate from everyday life. It’s accessible always but I think as I wrote to princess Arabia that it’s reasonable to assume it most likely requires intense focus, that may be difficult when you’re genuinely focused on worldly things

We think of happiness usually in the realm of human psychology. But yea we can be clueless about different mental states that could give access to a different quality of happpiness , and not know that it’s possible

Suffering can be pretty effortless too. I’d say it’s quite natural for human psychology 

I think it’s important to recognize that your mind is just that, your mind, and anything it comes up with is just a concept. So not taking any concept so seriously, which connects to your point about setting everything aside and investigating from scratch

 

[UnbornTao]

15 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

Being conscious and aware is duality to me. It’s this human experience 

I agree we don’t need to consider enlightenment a pursuit separate from everyday life. It’s accessible always but I think as I wrote to princess Arabia that it’s reasonable to assume it most likely requires intense focus, that may be difficult when you’re genuinely focused on worldly things

We think of happiness usually in the realm of human psychology. But yea we can be clueless about different mental states that could give access to a different quality of happpiness , and not know that it’s possible

Suffering can be pretty effortless too. I’d say it’s quite natural for human psychology 

I think it’s important to recognize that your mind is just that, your mind, and anything it comes up with is just a concept. So not taking any concept so seriously, which connects to your point about setting everything aside and investigating from scratch

Sure, thanks. By directly conscious, what's meant is an awakening. To add to what you said: it is easier to be happy than to suffer. Suffering requires doing something, whereas happiness may simply be the realization of your completeness in the present.

But why limit the consideration to a psychological framework? Suffering is about what you do in your experience, while happiness is an unknown, although psychological well-being is clearly foundational for the conventional kind of happiness.

You - You are the one who uses your mind. It is not an it that comes up with stuff on its own, as if it were an external force out of your control, like the weather. It's an activity one actively engages.

I think the depth of what a concept is still eludes us, though we do have concepts about it. Pain is a concept. How do we reconcile that fact with the way we currently hold concept to be? So, we can see that it is much deeper than a mere idea or frivolous notion. 

Edited Sunday at 12:53 PM by UnbornTao

[UnbornTao]

15 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

We be sure not to conflate pleasure and it's obtainment as happiness. Many people are not able to perceive the difference: 

 

Quote

Truly there is no cause for you to be miserable and unhappy. You yourself impose limitations on your true nature of infinite Being and then weep that you are but a finite creature. Then you take up this or that sadhana to transcend the nonexistent limitations. But if your sadhana itself assumes the existence of the limitations, how can it help you to transcend them? Hence I say know that you are really the infinite, pure Being, the Self Absolute. You are always that Self and nothing but that Self. Therefore, you can never be really ignorant of the Self; your ignorance is merely a formal ignorance... Know then that true Knowledge does not create a new Being for you; it only removes your "ignorant ignorance." Bliss is not added to your nature; it is merely revealed as your true and natural state, eternal and imperishable. The only way to be rid of your grief is to know and be the Self.

- Ramana Maharshi

Edited Sunday at 12:57 PM by UnbornTao

[saif2]

Life is too amazing by definition and in essence, selfishness prevents one from seeing this

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@UnbornTao no-one be picking up what no-one is putting down... or some such idiom

 

 

[UnbornTao]

6 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

@UnbornTao no-one be picking up what no-one is putting down... or some such idiom

Just another incomprehensible quote by Ramana.

Incomprehensible as in not currently realized/experienced.

[Sugarcoat]

14 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

Sure, thanks. By directly conscious, what's meant is an awakening. To add to what you said: it is easier to be happy than to suffer. Suffering requires doing something, whereas happiness may simply be the realization of your completeness in the present.

But why limit the consideration to a psychological framework? Suffering is about what you do in your experience, while happiness is an unknown, although psychological well-being is clearly foundational for the conventional kind of happiness.

You - You are the one who uses your mind. It is not an it that comes up with stuff on its own, as if it were an external force out of your control, like the weather. It's an activity one actively engages.

I think the depth of what a concept is still eludes us, though we do have concepts about it. Pain is a concept. How do we reconcile that fact with the way we currently hold concept to be? So, we can see that it is much deeper than a mere idea or frivolous notion. 

By direct consciousness you might imply that it transcends limitation, which contrasts to our current consciousness which is aware of limitation 

Effortlessness kinda implies an ease, so yea suffering feels more like a struggle so it can’t really be effortless by definition. 
 

I agree we deeply engage our mind. We engage in suffering, some feel suffering is necessary too, like being stressed feels it can help you have things under control.

The human happiness id say is known in the same way the human suffering is known. But a transcendent happiness is unknown for most 

It can help to recognize when something is a concept, so if it weighs us down (like a negative belief) we have possibility of letting it go , instead of confusing it with rest of reality

[Schizophonia]

Nonviolence

[UnbornTao]

3 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

By direct consciousness you might imply that it transcends limitation, which contrasts to our current consciousness which is aware of limitation 

Effortlessness kinda implies an ease, so yea suffering feels more like a struggle so it can’t really be effortless by definition. 
 

I agree we deeply engage our mind. We engage in suffering, some feel suffering is necessary too, like being stressed feels it can help you have things under control.

What is limitation?

As for the direct aspect, we would need to personally have a few kenshos (using a synonym) to truly understand what it points to. It is not what we think.

Does suffering help? Taking action doesn't require a negative motivation to drive it. In your example, does stress really accomplish what we assume it does? Not really; in fact, it often deflates and diminishes, and this applies to almost every form of non-physical suffering.

Quote

The human happiness id say is known in the same way the human suffering is known. But a transcendent happiness is unknown for most 

And it is currently accessible, too. "See" what is already here. Remove the layers that prevent this clear seeing, so to speak. 

Quote

It can help to recognize when something is a concept, so if it weighs us down (like a negative belief) we have possibility of letting it go , instead of confusing it with rest of reality

That is useful. Also, there are concepts that pertain to a deeper domain and are currently taken to be "reality." For example, living according to a self-story might seem convincing, yet it exists only as a product of imagination.

By examining our sense of reality, we may come to realize that much of it is a figment of the mind.

We could ask: What is experienced, and what is conceptual? It can be difficult to identify anything that isn't influenced by the mind, if not downright generated by it. There's a video on actuality that may clarify this point a bit further.

[SQAAD]

@Xonas Pitfall  Very good answer. Thank you.

[Sugarcoat]

On 2025-09-14 at 7:58 PM, UnbornTao said:

What is limitation?

As for the direct aspect, we would need to personally have a few kenshos (using a synonym) to truly understand what it points to. It is not what we think.

Does suffering help? Taking action doesn't require a negative motivation to drive it. In your example, does stress really accomplish what we assume it does? Not really; in fact, it often deflates and diminishes, and this applies to almost every form of non-physical suffering.

And it is currently accessible, too. "See" what is already here. Remove the layers that prevent this clear seeing, so to speak. 

That is useful. Also, there are concepts that pertain to a deeper domain and are currently taken to be "reality." For example, living according to a self-story might seem convincing, yet it exists only as a product of imagination.

By examining our sense of reality, we may come to realize that much of it is a figment of the mind.

We could ask: What is experienced, and what is conceptual? It can be difficult to identify anything that isn't influenced by the mind, if not downright generated by it. There's a video on actuality that may clarify this point a bit further.

This human experience is apparent limitation playing itself out

Then it’s a matter how to break limitations… to see directly as you say

I was just talking suffering generally how it works for people, but no it’s not necessary generally and might even make us less effective, but now that I think about it some people genuinely feel they work better under stress

I find there’s many layers to this experience, and I agree about removing them to see clearly. One can get a long way on the path but never reach the end… so for me the enlightenment still remains an unknown 

Yea thoughts can go beyond the conventional sense of mental shatter and intertwine with our sense of raw reality 

I am familiar with the video about actuality. I used to stare at my hand. It’s also something very accessible 

 

 

Edited Monday at 08:26 PM by Sugarcoat

[UnbornTao]

3 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

This human experience is apparent limitation playing itself out

Then it’s a matter how to break limitations… to see directly as you say

I was just talking suffering generally how it works for people, but no it’s not necessary generally and might even make us less effective, but now that I think about it some people genuinely feel they work better under stress

I find there’s many layers to this experience, and I agree about removing them to see clearly. One can get a long way on the path but never reach the end… so for me the enlightenment still remains an unknown 

Yea thoughts can go beyond the conventional sense of mental shatter and intertwine with our sense of raw reality 

I am familiar with the video about actuality. I used to stare at my hand. It’s also something very accessible 

Thoughts are a form of concept, after all. But what if "my" and "hand" were also conceptual, in some strange way? Never mind.

The claim is that it is challenging to locate a raw experience of reality once concept is set aside. What remains is an unfamiliar, open presence - a bare-bones sense of awareness.

We tend to assume that "thinking" is just a fringe activity, like commentary tacked onto the "real reality." Maybe this distinction isn't so clearly delineated as we like to believe. You mentioned this above. 

On a different note: how do stress and related states contribute to effectiveness? It's a different matter believing that they are useful in that sense.

And if this so-called "enlightenment" is direct, then it is neither a path nor an endpoint to reach. It's a sudden realization available to us right now.

Edited Tuesday at 12:03 AM by UnbornTao

[Dodo]

On 11/09/2025 at 6:43 PM, Dodo said:

Happiness is when you are satisfied. You seek nothing further to improve your current state, because you are completely satisfied aka happy and at peace. 

You might want to watch some Rupert Spira, lately he's been the one I resonare the most with, and I've listened to most you can find online that deal with nonduality.

 

On 13/09/2025 at 10:05 PM, Natasha Tori Maru said:

We be sure not to conflate pleasure and it's obtainment as happiness. Many people are not able to perceive the difference: 

 

The real answers get burried under all the arguing and banter

[Sugarcoat]

21 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

Thoughts are a form of concept, after all. But what if "my" and "hand" were also conceptual, in some strange way? Never mind.

The claim is that it is challenging to locate a raw experience of reality once concept is set aside. What remains is an unfamiliar, open presence - a bare-bones sense of awareness.

We tend to assume that "thinking" is just a fringe activity, like commentary tacked onto the "real reality." Maybe this distinction isn't so clearly delineated as we like to believe. You mentioned this above. 

On a different note: how do stress and related states contribute to effectiveness? It's a different matter believing that they are useful in that sense.

And if this so-called "enlightenment" is direct, then it is neither a path nor an endpoint to reach. It's a sudden realization available to us right now.

Yes it can be hard to completely distinguish the mind. And you say what remains is open presence. I’d say before the self has been stripped, there’s also the sense of the presence of self- may or may not be the mind 

 

Well I guess some people correlate caring deeply about something to being stressed about it. They feel their stress is part of their care and helps them stay focused on it and thus control it better

Yea I think ultimately enlightenment doesn’t discriminate, anyone could, but I also think the chance of it happening spontaneously is very low so if it’s the goal I think it’s wise to pursue it but maybe down the road it leads you to realize you never had to pursue it, but such realization might just come after the fact of pursuing it 

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@Dodo Always 😂

People want to feel and have power/dominion so desperately, they will chase any way to do so.