Why are the political commentators so annoying?

[Karmadhi]

13 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

There is a kind of obnoxious arrogance and self-righteousness among many leftists.

Cenk, Hasan, Destiny, Kyle, Vaush, etc. It sells to their most hardcore base. It's like throwing red meat to the leftist base. The more subdued and mature voices don't gain mass popularity.

Please do not call Destiny a leftist

Leftiest have empathy for oppressed people and he has 0 empathy for the monstrous crimes happening in Gaza and is very biased towards Israel

He is centrist 

Leftiest on some topics like gender and right wing when it comes to oppressed people like Palestinians

A proper leftiest would get furious at the matter

Like Cenk or Hasan or Vanush do

Destiny to me has lost all moral credibility when he tells IDF soldiers to stop recording war crimes because it is bad PR

Total lack of humanity from him

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

Please do not call Destiny a leftist

Please stop judging people based on a single position. This is not intelligent.

Needing others to be as morality outraged as you, or to be aligned with you on every issue that you are passionate about, is childish. This is part of the childishness of the left. They have such a low tolerance for diversity of political views. Which is quite ironic.

Edited August 25 by Leo Gura

[Karmadhi]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Please stop judging people based on a single position. This is not intelligent.

Needing others to be as morality outraged as you, or to be aligned with you on every issue that you are passionate about, is childish. This is part of the childishness of the left.

That position tells me all I need to know

It is like you judging people based on them supporting Trump and using that 1 position to put them in a category regardless of their other opinions on other topics.

You immedietly disregard them because that 1 position is so telling

Same with Destiny here

And it is not about how outraged you are. Nobody here is sayiing Destiny to be as outraged as Cenk

But Destiny does not give a single shit

Total lack of empathy is not the same as moderate empathy

 

Edited August 25 by Karmadhi

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

That position tells me all I need to know

It is like you judging people based on them supporting Trump and using that 1 position to put them in a category regardless of their other opinions on other topics.

You immedietly disregard them because that 1 position is so telling

Same with Destiny here

The difference is Destiny makes a good and effective ally. Many of his positions are great. He has a few issues he's bad on. So what? That is immaterial other than as moral outrage.

Trump is a different matter because Trump supporters are not your allies and most of their positions are horrible. So judging people based on their support for Trump is good politics. People judging people based on their positions on Israel is less good politics because the Israel issue is much more complicated.

Edited August 25 by Leo Gura

[Karmadhi]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

Trump is a different matter because Trump supporters are not your allies and most of their positions are horrible.

So if someone had mostly good positions but was also a Trump voter (fan) you would still take him seriously?

 

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

So if someone had mostly good positions but was also a Trump voter (fan) you would still take him seriously?

I can't really think of cases like this. Once someone is a Trump fan, they become a lost cause. Destiny has many good and intelligent positions.

Trump is not a complex issue. Israeli/Palestine is a more complex issue which requires a lot of careful study of history and bias. That's why I can forgive Destiny for not getting it right but I cannot forgive a Trump defender.

Edited August 25 by Leo Gura

[Karmadhi]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

People judging people based on their positions on Israel is less good politics because the Israel issue is much more complicated.

I do not think what Israel is doing now is complicated

It is just wrong and should be condemned and not supporter nor justified

DIfferent issue on the first 2 months of the war where you could make arguments from both sides

My issue is Destiny still defending Israel in August 2025, not in October 2023

Piers Morgan for example who had similar position to Destiny with time changed his mind because he realized Israel actions are no longer defendable and just wrong.

People that still defend Israel in summer 2025 today are either paid by them or morally rotten

Ironically the only Western government that does so is Trump which you so much despise

Edited August 25 by Karmadhi

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

People that still defend Israel today are either paid or morally rotten

Or they are uninformed or clouded by collective bias.

It is not so easy to defend the side that has Hamas.

Edited August 25 by Leo Gura

[Karmadhi]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

Or they are uninformed or clouded by collective bias.

How can a leftie like Destiny fall for a bias which is condusive of hardcore religious nutcases and far right government supporters?

That I cannot understand

Destiny is pretty informed on this matter, he even went to Israel to tell IDF troops to stop recording their war crimes.

 

Edited August 25 by Karmadhi

[Karmadhi]

6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It is not so easy to defend the side that has Hamas.

I dont think Hamas is still relevant to this conversation

It is about ethnic cleansing/genocide at this point

You could make the "Hamas" argument in the first year or so

They wont rule Gaza anymore anyway, also all their top leadership has already been killed

Also defending the side that has Smotrich and Ben Gvir is not easy either

Do you see what they say?

A clip for you:

 

The 1 for every 50 btw came from Nazi Germany that had such a tactic to supress partisan attacks on the Eastern Front

"The number of hostages to be shot was calculated based on a ratio of 100 hostages executed for every German soldier killed and 50 hostages executed for every German soldier wounded, a formula devised by Adolf Hitler with the intent of suppressing anti-Nazi resistance in Eastern Europe"

The irony

This is what Israeli defenders are defending or justifying

The Iranian government is also pretty bad yet Israel did not do the same to Iran

Hezbollah is also pretty bad and Israel did not do the same to Lebanon

Difference

Edited August 25 by Karmadhi

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

How can a leftie like Destiny fall for a bias which is condusive of hardcore religious nutcases and far right government supporters?

That I cannot understand

Because terrorism is not easy to make sense of.

Palestinians legit have low levels of development which are difficult to empathize with and find a solution to.

[Karmadhi]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Because terrorism is not easy to make sense of.

 

They are pretty good at making sense of Israeli terrorism so. To me it is just an anti Muslim and anti Arab bias that when they do bad things it is terrorism and when the rest do bad things it is "complicated". Double standards. I notice Americans are conditioned in this way since 9/11 to associate anything bad Arabs or Muslims do with terrorism and when other entities do similar or worse actions they use different terms for it. Pure bias.

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Palestinians legit have low levels of development which are difficult to empathize with and find a solution to.

It is the trademark of a leftie to empathize with low developmetn societies

Which makes me think Destiny is more centrist than leftist.

Edited August 25 by Karmadhi

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

Destiny is more centrist than leftist.

Well, there is truth to that. He has centrist sensibilities. But I don't see this as a bad thing. Centrists play an important role in the political conversation.

Overall, I prefer listening to Destiny over say, Cenk -- even if Destiny is wrong on Palestine.

There is an intelligence to centrism which leftists lack.

Edited August 25 by Leo Gura

[Karmadhi]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Well, there is truth to that. He has centrist sensibilities. But I don't see this as a bad thing. Centrists play an important role in the political conversation.

I never said it is a bad thing. I simply stated that Destiny to me seems more centrist than a leftie. That is how the conversation started  

So we somewhat agree on this

Also thank you for your responses, it is quite lucky of us to have someone as Wise as you openly discuss with us. 

[Karmadhi]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Overall, I prefer listening to Destiny over say, Cenk -- even if Destiny is wrong on Palestine.

 

I think the job of loud lefiests like Cenk is to increase awareness and create some sort of moral revolt in people that can help tackle unfairness in the world

Centrists are better in finding solutions once people become aware and willing to discuss solutions

First you need to get people up which leftiests do very well

Also Leo I am pretty centrist on a lot of topics like taxes, sexuality, Ukraine and immigration

It is mostly on Gaza where i become full blown leftie  

 

Edited August 25 by Karmadhi

[Husseinisdoingfine]

16 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It is not so easy to defend the side that has Hamas.

Couldn't the argument be made that Hamas largely exists out of desperation?

People in the West Bank do not side with Hamas, but every year they become more sympathetic as the situation in the West Bank becomes more desperate, with the settlements and whatnot. 

The sheer existence of the Israeli controlled settlements is such an insult and obstruction to Palestinian sovereignty, and no matter how hard they seem to negotiate, Israel doesn't want to give up the settlements but rather wants to increase them. 

Israeli militarized police continue to harass people without any reproductions, detaining people including children. There isn't proper access to water in many places, settler violence has increased, and people homes are being destroyed because they don't have proper access to building codes. And if they try to resist, they are sent to the military court as they are under military law. 

And yet we sit here on our moral high horses, with running water and electricity, wagging out finger at those who have any sympathy for Hamas. 

[Leo Gura]

12 minutes ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

Couldn't the argument be made that Hamas largely exists out of desperation?

That argument tends to not convince normies.

It's hard to get normies to understand the legit origins of terrorism. Normies don't ever see terrorism as justified or empathizable. That requires a degree of openmindedness and radical empathy that is too much of a paradigm shift for normies.

Once you realize that terrorism has legit origins, that's a huge mindfuck that most people do not want the emotional labor of dealing with. It is much easier and simpler to live in a reality where terrorism is always evil. So that's how most people live.

Edited August 25 by Leo Gura

[PurpleTree]

I think the Israel/Palestine situation was more complex at some point.

But after like 3 months of one side with a strong army decimating the other women children and all it wasn’t complex anymore. Also their criminal leader has a search warrant by the international criminal court.

[Husseinisdoingfine]

Its similar to how Osama Bin-Laden had legitimate grievances against America. 

Of course he was wrong to target civilians, but in his letter to America, I found myself agreeing with a lot of his criticisms of American government and foreign policy.

https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/ubl2016/english/To the American people.pdf

America definitely instigated 9/11 through its foreign meddling and support of the Mujahideen, and Israel did instigate October 7 through continuously making a worsening situation for Palestinians. But any who dares make this point would get crucified in American society. 

America was also largely responsible for the rise of ISIS, which could not have happened without the Iraq war.

[Leo Gura]

12 minutes ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

America definitely instigated 9/11 through its foreign meddling and support of the Mujahideen

1) American troops were in Arabia with the blessing of the Saudi government. Bin Laden was such a religious lunatic that he didn't respect the Saudi government.

2) America helped Afghans resist the Soviets. This was to the Afghans favor. But again, Bin Laden was such a self-righteous religious lunatic that he wanted all the credit for defending the Middle East for himself.

Bin Laden had ridiculous views that even most Saudis disagreed with.

Bin Laden was outraged that the Saudi government chose US troops to repel Saddam's invasion of Kuwait instead of Bin Laden's rag-tag group of religious fanatics. It was really quite a stupid thing to upset over. Americans did the fighting for the Saudis and Bin Laden was pissed off over it. That's a silly reason to terrorize Americans for. Terrorizing Americans for supporting Israel and oppressing Palestinians at least makes sense.

Edited August 25 by Leo Gura