How To Navigate Insanity And Fear In Spiritual Work

[Eskilon]

You guys that are serious into this work can probably relate.

There comes a point where fear and especially the fear of losing one's mind is very real. And many people say that fear is the biggest scam there is in this work, but really at the same time it is very difficult to overcome it. You guys that have gone deep know this. How is your attitude to fear and insanity in this work? And especially those who did not awake yet(like me), if awakening implies insanity, are you ready for that? Is there really a line where awakening is possible and you can maintain your sanity? Should one really do this work only if there's nothing more one hold dear in life?

I am starting to understand the cost of understanding. Truth is a very serious matter.

Edited Sunday at 03:48 PM by Eskilon

[theleelajoker]

Well, I am in the middle of it, with lots ups and downs. 

Long story short: what helped and still helps me most:

1. Get into my body, physical stuff: dancing, swimming, running, bike, cuddling, sauna, stretching, yoga, breathing, etc etc 
2. Being social, meeting people, being open, being authentic. Simply by putting myself out there, "life" puts me into touch with great people that are more or less on the same stage
3. Relax. Goal is to be relaxed anytime, anywhere, in any situation. I tell myself consciously to relax, I check where I hold tensions in my body and relax them as good as possible. It's reprogramming myself to do this as good as possible. 

Enjoy the ride

PS: I do all the things above simply for me to feel good. But doesn't matter if you're a man or woman, the great side effect is that the quality of my interactions with others increase. Or as the guys in the forum would call it, "better game" lol 

Edited Sunday at 04:50 PM by theleelajoker

[Ishanga]

@Eskilon I like to promote the Peace or Bliss path as I like to call it vs. this path of insanity or austerity or other paths that too me mean allot of suffering involved..

First, don't concern Yourself with this term or thing we call "Awakening" or Enlightenment or such higher up concepts, just be concerned with where You are at right now and take baby steps.

The first baby step is establishing some stability in some ways, making Yourself Physically Healthy, Mentally/Emotionally in a pleasant state of Peacefulness, and Your Energies are free of blockages and are Intense in Your Experience...

If You do this, and Suffering becomes practically impossible for You (Pain is always possible, but Pain is not the same as Suffering), then naturally Your Potentials will open up, Kundalini will rise up, what You found interesting before will no longer be interesting to You since Your becoming more Aware and Conscious of what it means to be Human.

There are many techniques out there to make this process happen very smoothly, why reinvent the wheel when we have proven ways to make Yourself Peaceful, Healthy and full of Well Being...

[Salvijus]

1 hour ago, Eskilon said:

if awakening implies insanity, are you ready for that?

Awakening implies the end of insanity.

Insanity is your current state already. There's nothing fancy about it. 

Edited Sunday at 05:18 PM by Salvijus

[Eskilon]

1 hour ago, theleelajoker said:

Well, I am in the middle of it, with lots ups and downs. 

Long story short: what helped and still helps me most:

1. Get into my body, physical stuff: dancing, swimming, running, bike, cuddling, sauna, stretching, yoga, breathing, etc etc 
2. Being social, meeting people, being open, being authentic. Simply by putting myself out there, "life" puts me into touch with great people that are more or less on the same stage
3. Relax. Goal is to be relaxed anytime, anywhere, in any situation. I tell myself consciously to relax, I check where I hold tensions in my body and relax them as good as possible. It's reprogramming myself to do this as good as possible. 

Enjoy the ride

PS: I do all the things above simply for me to feel good. But doesn't matter if you're a man or woman, the great side effect is that the quality of my interactions with others increase. Or as the guys in the forum would call it, "better game" lol 

So you do a lot of physical activities to stay grounded, that is good. 

But what I am saying is when you in the middle of a spiritual practice, be it meditation or psychedelics, fear will pop up, and sometimes a very intense fear -- your sense of self is being severly challenged. I know you can say, accept everything, let go etc etc, but is not that simple I am afraid. At that moment, what do you personally do?

[Eskilon]

1 hour ago, Ishanga said:

I like to promote the Peace or Bliss path as I like to call it vs. this path of insanity or austerity or other paths that too me mean allot of suffering involved..

First, don't concern Yourself with this term or thing we call "Awakening" or Enlightenment or such higher up concepts, just be concerned with where You are at right now and take baby steps.

The first baby step is establishing some stability in some ways, making Yourself Physically Healthy, Mentally/Emotionally in a pleasant state of Peacefulness, and Your Energies are free of blockages and are Intense in Your Experience...

If You do this, and Suffering becomes practically impossible for You (Pain is always possible, but Pain is not the same as Suffering), then naturally Your Potentials will open up, Kundalini will rise up, what You found interesting before will no longer be interesting to You since Your becoming more Aware and Conscious of what it means to be Human.

There are many techniques out there to make this process happen very smoothly, why reinvent the wheel when we have proven ways to make Yourself Peaceful, Healthy and full of Well Being...

I see, I would say I am already pretty healthy mentally, emotionally and etc. I am silent. But there's still fear.

I don't know about spiritual development without suffering. Buddha, prior to being Buddha suffered alot, Jesus, I think its fundamental to the path. It is beautiful too, I takes a great soul and bravery to pursue this work, that's why nobody does it.

Edited Sunday at 06:22 PM by Eskilon

[Eskilon]

1 hour ago, Salvijus said:

Awakening implies the end of insanity.

Insanity is your current state already. There's nothing fancy about it. 

I guess that's one way to frame it.

But this doesn't help.

Edited Sunday at 06:22 PM by Eskilon

[Salvijus]

35 minutes ago, Eskilon said:

I guess that's one way to frame it.

But this doesn't help.

The correction in how you frame or perceive things is all the help you need. 

[Joshe]

Don’t run from it, just accept it and sit with it until it goes away. Then, sooner or later, you realize sitting with fear is a waste of time and useless, except for overcoming it. Eventually, you get better at consciously choosing not to allow fear, not out of fear itself, but seeing it as a waste of resources. Anytime it arises, just let it in. I’m no spiritual guru but this is the best I’ve got. 

[Ishanga]

1 hour ago, Eskilon said:

I see, I would say I am already pretty healthy mentally, emotionally and etc. I am silent. But there's still fear.

I don't know about spiritual development without suffering. Buddha, prior to being Buddha suffered alot, Jesus, I think its fundamental to the path. It is beautiful too, I takes a great soul and bravery to pursue this work, that's why nobody does it.

That is the whole point, from what I know Buddha realized he didn't have to put himself thru the Sufferings to have Realization, as it was always there (as a Potential).. The work is to rid oneself of the barriers to Realization, there are many barriers, its called Karma, which is the residual imprint of all the actions You have taken, Body/Mind/Emotion/Energy actions, how Aware are You of all the actions taking place in these areas of Your Life on a moment to moment basis?  Most are less than 1% aware, so therefore they are living by accident, karma is ruling them, but a Human Being is capable of being Totally Aware, this bypasses the Karmic Substance.

Suffering only exists in two places, Body and Mind, once You know You are neither of these things, Suffering ceases to exist...

Edited Sunday at 08:07 PM by Ishanga

[Natasha Tori Maru]

Are you currently in the middle of untangling your self, your ego, from your base sense of 'being'? When you are on the cusp of something large like this, a big fear block usually shows up.

That process was very very destabilising for me. Very frightening. 

Like falling from a plane in tandem with an instructor parachuting. You feel safe clinging to the instructor (the ego), but you know to experience the fall in the full you must let go. The fear is the fear of letting go, the ego falling away. The unknown awaits. You look down and it appears like insanity - and the more insane part is you have no parachute! No guide once you let go. 

But when you do, you find there is no ground - and the experience goes. Goes. And goes. And you realise you have never seen the world before. 

Some of these religious institutions have some good grounding methods (Buddhism) because they know how destabilising the process is. Most of their practice is heavy on the grounding work - grounding is what you need. Of the body. The sensations. Walking meditation. Yoga. Any sort of manual task like cleaning even. A powerful one for me is concentrating on centering myself within my body, just below the belly button. I put all my focus there and it is quite pleasant. I feel a bit better every time.

Fear is normal. Fear is actually the ultimate deception. The ultimate block to Love.

You can take this work at your own pace. Pause for a bit of you don't feel ready. There is no end, so no rush. 

The feeling of insanity can be the beginning of disidentifying with thought. Thought is usually the ground of the inner landscape. Scary to delete the ground.

That's why you need 'grounding' practice 😜 new ground after you delete the old 

 

[Eskilon]

2 hours ago, Salvijus said:

The correction in how you frame or perceive things is all the help you need. 

Sure, until you drastically change your state and this doesnt mean much.

[Eskilon]

2 hours ago, Joshe said:

Don’t run from it, just accept it and sit with it until it goes away. Then, sooner or later, you realize sitting with fear is a waste of time and useless, except for overcoming it. Eventually, you get better at consciously choosing not to allow fear, not out of fear itself, but seeing it as a waste of resources. Anytime it arises, just let it in. I’m no spiritual guru but this is the best I’ve got. 

I know I just need to accept it, but its too profound. Accepting is the key, it's simple, it's profound, it's greatness. But my little self is afraid, at least for now. Oh well, more work for me to do.

[Eskilon]

1 hour ago, Ishanga said:

That is the whole point, from what I know Buddha realized he didn't have to put himself thru the Sufferings to have Realization, as it was always there (as a Potential).. The work is to rid oneself of the barriers to Realization, there are many barriers, its called Karma, which is the residual imprint of all the actions You have taken, Body/Mind/Emotion/Energy actions, how Aware are You of all the actions taking place in these areas of Your Life on a moment to moment basis?  Most are less than 1% aware, so therefore they are living by accident, karma is ruling them, but a Human Being is capable of being Totally Aware, this bypasses the Karmic Substance.

Suffering only exists in two places, Body and Mind, once You know You are neither of these things, Suffering ceases to exist...

I agree with you, suffering and fear are the two gatekeepers to God.

[theleelajoker]

3 hours ago, Eskilon said:

So you do a lot of physical activities to stay grounded, that is good. 

But what I am saying is when you in the middle of a spiritual practice, be it meditation or psychedelics, fear will pop up, and sometimes a very intense fear -- your sense of self is being severly challenged. I know you can say, accept everything, let go etc etc, but is not that simple I am afraid. At that moment, what do you personally do?

Puhhhh...the honest answer is of course that it's different many times.

Sometimes I stopped and reacted to the fear. Could not go into it. Accepting that I wasn't ready. Just too much of fear, feeling like dying, almost like a reflex when you touch fire you have this survival instinct of automatically withdrawing the hand.

Other times I can stay more consistent, breath, try to stay as still as possible. Second n'y second, inch by inch facing it.

Or that times I take a break, few moments, minutes, and give it a go again. 

My body reacts sometimes quite strong, close to throwing up, or becoming dizzy. Then I just try to not throw up and just stay conscious lol

Sometimes I move a bit, let the energy find a channel, or actually let my body be moved by ... Let's call it inner energy.

Sometimes I do some mental self talk "OK stay, breath, focus, relax....". Or I tell my self "ok that's what you want, you want to face this fear, so do your best" reframing it as something I want to experience vs. something I want to avoid (of course that alone is not sufficient as I can feel the fear physically)

Other times I play with the focus of my attention, within or outside my body 

Hope that helps in some way re your question.

Will experiment the next days maybe something good will come up

Edited Sunday at 10:03 PM by theleelajoker

[Eskilon]

51 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Are you currently in the middle of untangling your self, your ego, from your base sense of 'being'? When you are on the cusp of something large like this, a big fear block usually shows up.

That process was very very destabilising for me. Very frightening. 

Like falling from a plane in tandem with an instructor parachuting. You feel safe clinging to the instructor (the ego), but you know to experience the fall in the full you must let go. The fear is the fear of letting go, the ego falling away. The unknown awaits. You look down and it appears like insanity - and the more insane part is you have no parachute! No guide once you let go. 

But when you do, you find there is no ground - and the experience goes. Goes. And goes. And you realise you have never seen the world before. 

Some of these religious institutions have some good grounding methods (Buddhism) because they know how destabilising the process is. Most of their practice is heavy on the grounding work - grounding is what you need. Of the body. The sensations. Walking meditation. Yoga. Any sort of manual task like cleaning even. A powerful one for me is concentrating on centering myself within my body, just below the belly button. I put all my focus there and it is quite pleasant. I feel a bit better every time.

Fear is normal. Fear is actually the ultimate deception. The ultimate block to Love.

You can take this work at your own pace. Pause for a bit of you don't feel ready. There is no end, so no rush. 

The feeling of insanity can be the beginning of disidentifying with thought. Thought is usually the ground of the inner landscape. Scary to delete the ground.

That's why you need 'grounding' practice 😜 new ground after you delete the old 

Yes, I was at the brink of something big in my last trip on shrooms. I even perceived that it "offered" me a breakthrough and... I couldn't take it/continuing going deep. Like you said fear.

If I did accept the offer, I intuit very deeply that I didn't know how "I" or reality would be after. It was crazy, but I also sensed that it was gonna be awesome, I wasnt ready to that degree of awesomeness lol. Its crazy scary.

I still love the world somewhat, I couldn't let go of this very limited world. Suffering from greatness, can you believe this shit? LMAO

I guess I am not ready to let go fully of my personhood and go into Brahmanhood. 

I was beginning to actually understand and feel that there's NO difference whatsoever between you and any other thing. And this wasnt something light, its not on an intellectual level, its not like you read somewhere and get it. But a new dimension of understanding, I guess its Being. It was really intense, and I am glad the medicine didnt force me and was gentle enough for allowing me to back it off. Something like 5-meo wouldn't allow it as I understand it.

Currently I am washed. I can stay in being without thoughts. Eyes closed or open. I am so grateful for this. I also feel a hotness inside of me since that day, in the heart area, its pleasant.

I agree that gounding methods are essential, and should be practiced, I will try them for sure. 

Honestly, hats off to all of you who do this work, you guys are BRAVE as fuck! I am proud of everyone here.

 

Edited Sunday at 10:07 PM by Eskilon

[Eskilon]

11 minutes ago, theleelajoker said:

Puhhhh...the honest answer is of course that it's different many times.

Sometimes I stopped and reacted to the fear. Could not go into it. Accepting that I wasn't ready. Just too much of fear, feeling like dying, almost like a reflex when you touch fire you have this survival instinct of automatically withdrawing the hand.

Other times I can stay more consistent, breath, try to stay as still as possible. Second n'y second, inch by inch facing it.

Or that times I take a break, few moments, minutes, and give it a go again. 

My body reacts sometimes quite strong, close to throwing up, or becoming dizzy. Then I just try to not throw up and just stay conscious lol

Sometimes I move a bit, let the energy find a channel, or actually let my body be moved by ... Let's call it inner energy.

Sometimes I do some mental self talk "OK stay, breath, focus, relax....". Or I tell my self "ok that's what you want, you want to face this fear, so your best" reframing it as something I want to experience vs. something I want to avoid (of course that alone is not sufficient as I can feel the fear physically)

Other times I play with the focus of my attention, within or outside my body 

Hope that helps in some way re your question.

Will experiment the next days maybe something good will come up

I understand. I will go as far as to say that Spirituality is a battle against fear. To understand reality is to beat fear. Truth will test you a thousandfold, if you are honest, brave enough then it reveals itself to you. 

Thanks a lot for your tips, will try it.

Edited Sunday at 09:54 PM by Eskilon

[theleelajoker]

12 minutes ago, Eskilon said:

I understand. I will go as far as to say that Spirituality is a battle against fear. To understand reality is to beat fear. Truth will test you a thousandfold, if you are honest, brave enough then it reveals itself to you. 

Thanks a lot for your tips, will try it.

Yeah fear seems to be very central to this experience we call life. 

I already wrote it few days ago in another thread, feels l like the "play test" episode on Black mirror E2S3

[Leo Gura]

Depends on what you mean by insanity. You could be talking about actual mental illness which is a problem to be taken seriously and treated. Or you could be talking about higher dimensions of consciousness which are radical and freaky, but not unhealthy or dysfunctional, in which case you just approach them with curiosity and wonder.

Your fear is warranted if you are losing control of yourself in dangerous ways, like if you are becoming suicidal or homocidal. Otherwise the fear is probably just resistance to higher dimensions of consciousness which are actually beautiful in their weirdness.

[Eskilon]

13 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Or you could be talking about higher dimensions of consciousness which are radical and freaky, but not unhealthy or dysfunctional, in which case you just approach them with curiosity and wonder.

Yeah its this, the weirdness its beautiful but scary

 

13 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Otherwise the fear is probably just resistance to higher dimensions of consciousness which are actually beautiful in their weirdness.

The whole work is to overcome resistance to greatness.

Conciousness is like = "Why are you resisting profound love, you fool!"