Breakingthewall

Anti human spirituality

363 posts in this topic

25 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I try not to get triggered, because that's stupid

Part of working on yourself is to not get triggered by how others respond to you. You have no control how people respond to you, but you do have control over whether to be triggered or reactionary. 
 

I personally don’t believe spirituality is anti human. If it is then it’s misguided spirituality imo.
 

I don’t think spirituality is in denial of the human experience do you? Is that what this thread topic is dealing with or not?

 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Mellowmarsh said:

Part of working on yourself is to not get triggered by how others respond to you. You have no control how people respond to you, but you do have control over whether to be triggered or reactionary. 
 

I personally don’t believe spirituality is anti human. If it is then it’s misguided spirituality imo.
 

I don’t think spirituality is in denial of the human experience do you? Is that what this thread topic is dealing with or not?

 

 

 

 

Sure,  my reaction is dumb. I can't avoid because I put all that I have in every post (the posts about spirituality, not this argument). I contemplate hours about it. When I said anti human spirituality is the tendency about saying that the self is a thought. I explained in the thread, you could read if you want 

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Posted (edited)

8 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

@Breakingthewall 

Who would have thought you'd rack up so many warning points already? You like to chat and project a lot, and you're not really willing to listen to anything beyond yourself. You can keep being stubborn as a mule, or you can listen for once.

At the very least, be intellectually interested in getting the basics of the theory right - not as a belief, by the way.

What does agreeing or disagreeing accomplish? Nothing. The same points outlined above, and in my other replies, still apply.

The main issue here is that the truth regarding the self is clearly unknown. And yet, that fact isn't recognized for what it is! Hence the need for contemplation. Try it out - give it a real try.

Say anything about the topic or about anything, not just insulting and sarcasm. You didn't exposed a single point. Can you do? Talk about the self. Let's see what are your ideas , if you have any

Edited by Breakingthewall

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Posted (edited)

@Breakingthewall Have you read and attempted to listen to any of my other replies?

Edited by UnbornTao

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Just now, UnbornTao said:

@Breakingthewall Have you read and attempted to understand my other replies?

Yes, all of them were that my understanding is low, just theory, mimic or real spirituality. But nothing else. When I asked: where is the mistake in what I said? You just say: go to contemplate! Or anything like this. 

I'm absolutely aware that im totally retarded getting triggered about this situation, but I'm 3 days contemplating this topic obsessively, asking Chatgpt about all the spiritual traditions in relationship of this, wasting hours. It's stupid? Could be or not, it's what I did those days, just a bit of passion about this topic. 

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3 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Sure,  my reaction is dumb. I can't avoid because I put all that I have in every post (the posts about spirituality, not this argument). I contemplate hours about it. When I said anti human spirituality is the tendency about saying that the self is a thought. I explained in the thread, you could read if you want 

Okay, I’ll give it some consideration. I’ll get back here when time allows of course.

Your reaction isn’t dumb, it’s just probably frustration that’s all, it’s a self perpetuating habit that most people indulge in when communicating with others especially when it’s of a metaphysical nature.

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3 minutes ago, Mellowmarsh said:

Okay, I’ll give it some consideration. I’ll get back here when time allows of course.

Your reaction isn’t dumb, it’s just probably frustration that’s all, it’s a self perpetuating habit that most people indulge in when communicating with others especially when it’s of a metaphysical nature.

If you read the whole thread, which I don't think you will because it's long and pitifully stupid, you'll see that I've responded dozens of times to hostile and insulting messages with complete equanimity and patience, with thoughtful replies explaining the points as thoroughly and accurately as I can, but there comes a time when frustration wins

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Posted (edited)

12 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I'm absolutely aware that im totally retarded getting triggered about this situation, but I'm 3 days contemplating this topic obsessively, asking Chatgpt about all the spiritual traditions in relationship of this, wasting hours. It's stupid? Could be or not, it's what I did those days, just a bit of passion about this topic. 

I've maybe contemplated something once. The rest of the time my mind just spews connections. The times I've "contemplated", it was actually just entertaining cognitive dissonance and being unwilling to let go and realizing I was trying to force something that wasn't a well-formed thought. If something is a well-formed thought, you can't help but to express it. If you can't seem to express a well-formed thought, let it go, it will come back better.

Edited by Carl-Richard

Intrinsic joy = being x meaning ²

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Posted (edited)

5 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Yes, all of them were that my understanding is low, just theory, mimic or real spirituality. But nothing else. When I asked: where is the mistake in what I said? You just say: go to contemplate! Or anything like this. 

I'm absolutely aware that im totally retarded getting triggered about this situation, but I'm 3 days contemplating this topic obsessively, asking Chatgpt about all the spiritual traditions in relationship of this, wasting hours. It's stupid? Could be or not, it's what I did those days, just a bit of passion about this topic. 

If I lie, I die. ;)

Anyhow, you got stuck in your own reactions to what was said.

How about contemplating what contemplation is?

Edited by UnbornTao

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5 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

I've maybe contemplated something once. The rest of the time my mind just spews connections. The times I've "contemplated", it was actually just entertaining cognitive dissonance and being unwilling to let go and realizing I was trying to force something that wasn't a well-formed thought. If something is a well-formed thought, you can't help but to express it. If you can't seem to express a well-formed thought, let it go, it will come back better.

If I express an idea and you come and counter it with logic, I'll see that my idea wasn't well-formulated, or had some flaw, or was completely wrong. But if you come and say my idea is stupid because such-and-such a teacher says the opposite, or because you simply find it stupid, then your argument won't seem valid to me. 

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4 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

If I lie, I die. ;)

Seriously though, you got stuck in your own reactions to what was said.

How about contemplating what contemplation is?

Still waiting for any reference about the topic of the thread. If you don't agree, just explain why. 

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Next thread: narcissism and spirituality. With equanimity, humility and kindness 

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1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

Still waiting for any reference about the topic of the thread. If you don't agree, just explain why. 

Jesus Christ.

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Posted (edited)

5 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

Jesus Christ.

Man, seriously, if you think you weren't trolling and really do you think that you answered properly, one of us is in a parallel reality 

 

Edited by Breakingthewall

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Posted (edited)

Anyway, to finishing:

it's absolutely, totally obvious, and it's incredible that there is the slightest doubt (sorry for the arrogance but it's obvious), that the self is as real as the body or as a stone. 

The idea, taken almost as dogma by modern spirituality, that the self is a mental construct, that thoughts create emotions, and that ceasing those thoughts is enough for the emotions to cease, is false. Emotions are the foundation of thoughts (even thoughts feed back emotions), their structural basis, and are determined by neural pathways created over millions of years of evolution. These pathways are dynamic, constantly changing, just like any other reality, but you can't "drop" them, and enlightenment, which has always been the case since it is simply reality, manifests itself, as Ralston says. Simplifying like this traps you, it closes you off. It's a basic error. The consequences are a mind splitted and closed. The opposite than we are looking for 

Edited by Breakingthewall

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How ironic how this thread is about anti-human spirituality but it turned into a human mess.  @Breakingthewall is one of the few here that speaks any sense on the topic and is very respectable in his approach. Whether he's right or wrong and if we disagree or not, I find him to be a good communicator and shows a lot of passion in this field. I see him trying to not offend and is very apologetic if and when he does. 


What you know leaves what you don't know and what you don't know is all there is. 

 

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1 minute ago, Princess Arabia said:

How ironic how this thread is about anti-human spirituality but it turned into a human mess.  @Breakingthewall is one of the few here that speaks any sense on the topic and is very respectable in his approach. Whether he's right or wrong and if we disagree or not, I find him to be a good communicator and shows a lot of passion in this field. I see him trying to not offend and is very apologetic if and when he does. 

Exactly, appreciate the assessment, which is true, humility aside. It's another thing to disagree or point out errors.

Any of us who expound on a topic of metaphysics will do so with exaggerated certainty, since to expound it you must have thought about it a lot and come to a final conclusion. You're not going to expound it by saying: Well, surely what I'm saying is stupid, but maybe the self is real? No, you say it with certainty; that's not arrogance. Nor is it arrogance to refuse to accept unfounded replies. Arrogance is doesn't accept real replies by ego, because admit that you are wrong let's you down. But if you are sure that you are right, not for ego but because you really believe it, you will show it 

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15 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

it's absolutely, totally obvious, and it's incredible that there is the slightest doubt (sorry for the arrogance but it's obvious), that the self is as real as the body or as a stone. 

So maybe the self is as real as a stone, but then what’s not real is that the self and the stone are separate things? So in that sense it’s not real because it’s not existing as a separate thing. Or am I wrong? I mean must be at least something wrong in my experience that I’m having right now where I feel real

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14 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

So maybe the self is as real as a stone, but then what’s not real is that the self and the stone are separate things? So in that sense it’s not real because it’s not existing as a separate thing. Or am I wrong? I mean must be at least something wrong in my experience that I’m having right now where I feel real

Well, sure we are all one from a mystical perspective and all that, but I'm speaking from the normal perspective where you don't want to be hit with a hammer on the head, but you don't mind if they hit the stone with a hammer.

The self is an energetic structure as real as stone; it's stable and structured with mathematical precision at the genius level. The thing is, self structures are dynamic; they can change. But if you have a fear of heights, it's not enough to simply let go of the thought of terror; that's a lie. You'll have to practice climbing for five years intensively to retrain your brain. And if what you want is to not react if you see your five-year-old children being tortured, then it's probably impossible. These are the foundations of the self, and you have to see them as they are, so you can align that real self so that it's fluid and transparent, to the extent possible. 

If the idea: the self is just a thought, it's an irreal illusion created by human imagination, gets installed in you, you will get frustrated trying to silence the self creating a duality, the screen where the thoughts arises, without achieve nothing but a kind of anesthesia that have a price: castration of the alive flow that you are

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