Debunking Solipsism

[Wilhelm44]

12 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

No, I am talking about the possibility of different Gods which have no contact with each other.

It is the notion of multiple Absolute Minds.

Imagine infinite different Absolutes.

This is a twisted notion.

@Leo Gura So is solipsism simply a pointer to realize yourself as God in a deeper reality, and that deeper reality is actually not solipsistic at all ?

Edited yesterday at 07:03 AM by Wilhelm44

[vibv]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Rather than debating about solipsism what you guys need to do is focus on grasping what God is. The deeper you grasp God the more clarity you will have on the solipsism question.

People do not understand what God is. Even enlightened people do not. It takes more than enlightenment to understand it.

God is a singular mind that creates a reality around itself because it has no one to define reality for it. Lack of other is what makes God God.

All non-God notions of reality assume an other which limits reality.

The key to full God-Realization is realizing that other is imagined by you. If other is entirely imaginary then your mind has absolute power. Then you are truly God.

But Love goes beyond Power, it transcends it. Power still binds something to a cause, but Love is absolutely groundless. Love transcends Power so completely, that other perspectives can exist totally autonomously that are outside of any control—because EVERYTHING is out of control. Love needs no control.

That's why Love ultimately even transcends Peace & Mind!

[Xonas Pitfall]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Rather than debating about solipsism what you guys need to do is focus on grasping what God is. The deeper you grasp God the more clarity you will have on the solipsism question.

People do not understand what God is. Even enlightened people do not. It takes more than enlightenment to understand it.

God is a singular mind that creates a reality around itself because it has no one to define reality for it. Lack of other is what makes God God.

All non-God notions of reality assume an other which limits reality.

The key to full God-Realization is realizing that other is imagined by you. If other is entirely imaginary then your mind has absolute power. Then you are truly God.

But why then say it like this?

16 hours ago, r0ckyreed said:

No, I am talking about the possibility of different Gods which have no contact with each other.

It is the notion of multiple Absolute Minds.

Imagine infinite different Absolutes.

This is a twisted notion.

If the former is true, then wouldn’t it be better to say: "Infinity spawns many absolutes which have no contact with each other, though they are all still contained within the final, ultimate absolute. I am just trying to illustrate how twisted infinity can be, and how it can spawn other versions of infinity within itself."

This way, you sound much more coherent, and your teachings feel more credible, as they follow logic (and obviously, I’m not talking about rigid scientific logic, but a more tautological, definition-based logic).

If you say there is a potential of infinite Absolutes that cannot communicate with each other, you are violating the fundamental argument that God is the Self with no Other, as you are creating Others that are separate absolutes not contained by God (the Self), which again makes the definition of God incoherent. I accept the premise that the Self and Other are contained within God, but anything outside or unknowable/unreachable to God invalidates its very definition.

Edited yesterday at 11:21 AM by Xonas Pitfall

[r0ckyreed]

1 hour ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

But why then say it like this?

If the former is true, then wouldn’t it be better to say: "Infinity spawns many absolutes which have no contact with each other, though they are all still contained within the final, ultimate absolute. I am just trying to illustrate how twisted infinity can be, and how it can spawn other versions of infinity within itself."

This way, you sound much more coherent, and your teachings feel more credible, as they follow logic (and obviously, I’m not talking about rigid scientific logic, but a more tautological, definition-based logic).

If you say there is a potential of infinite Absolutes that cannot communicate with each other, you are violating the fundamental argument that God is the Self with no Other, as you are creating Others that are separate absolutes not contained by God (the Self), which again makes the definition of God incoherent. I accept the premise that the Self and Other are contained within God, but anything outside of God invalidates its very definition.

I second this.

[OBEler]

@Xonas Pitfall "anything outside or unknowable/unreachable to God invalidates its very definition."

 

No. You are god. You can reach to other gods outside of you because you are god. Thats what Leo did in his infinity of god video. Watch again.

in the end it leads to not knowing. You don't know and can't ever know because everything outside yourself which you contact becomes you. So there is never be an outside for you but from Meta perspective it can and logically must exist other gods like you. Complete in their own reality.

And it makes sense. For example you are a trip sitter and your imaginary friend trips on salvia. He is a god in his own reality. He creates another life and is completely disconnected to your world. He is a god in his own reality. You just watch him doing autonom movements until he comes back to this shares dream. 

His consciousness had the power to create time and space and own world completely Independent and disconnected from this dream world.

 

 

 

[emil1234]

18 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

No, I am talking about the possibility of different Gods which have no contact with each other.

It is the notion of multiple Absolute Minds.

Imagine infinite different Absolutes.

This is a twisted notion.

what would seperate these minds?

[Xonas Pitfall]

1 hour ago, OBEler said:

@Xonas Pitfall "anything outside or unknowable/unreachable to God invalidates its very definition."

No. You are god. You can reach to other gods outside of you because you are god. Thats what Leo did in his infinity of god video. Watch again.

in the end it leads to not knowing. You don't know and can't ever know because everything outside yourself which you contact becomes you. So there is never be an outside for you but from Meta perspective it can and logically must exist other gods like you. Complete in their own reality.

And it makes sense. For example you are a trip sitter and your imaginary friend trips on salvia. He is a god in his own reality. He creates another life and is completely disconnected to your world. He is a god in his own reality. You just watch him doing autonom movements until he comes back to this shares dream. 

His consciousness had the power to create time and space and own world completely Independent and disconnected from this dream world.

?

I’m really sorry, but this genuinely makes very little sense. If, by definition, God is a Self that has no 'Other,' it means that everything is Himself. Sure, God can create illusions and fool Himself with them, but the Absolute must contain all, be aware of all, and have everything reachable and knowable to it; otherwise, it invalidates the very definition of what God is.

The Absolute cannot have anything that is filtered or has any boundaries between Him, because all of those boundaries must be imaginary, as they are all Him. The only way He cannot see these boundaries as Himself is if He has fooled Himself, or if the definition of God is wrong.

Edited yesterday at 01:47 PM by Xonas Pitfall

[Razard86]

5 hours ago, OBEler said:

@Xonas Pitfall "anything outside or unknowable/unreachable to God invalidates its very definition."

 

No. You are god. You can reach to other gods outside of you because you are god. Thats what Leo did in his infinity of god video. Watch again.

in the end it leads to not knowing. You don't know and can't ever know because everything outside yourself which you contact becomes you. So there is never be an outside for you but from Meta perspective it can and logically must exist other gods like you. Complete in their own reality.

And it makes sense. For example you are a trip sitter and your imaginary friend trips on salvia. He is a god in his own reality. He creates another life and is completely disconnected to your world. He is a god in his own reality. You just watch him doing autonom movements until he comes back to this shares dream. 

His consciousness had the power to create time and space and own world completely Independent and disconnected from this dream world.

 

 

 

If you take the substance too or have an OBE....you can experience the Salvia trip as him.

[OBEler]

@Razard86 lol has someone ever did that, stealing someone else's body while he trips on Salvia?

 

[OBEler]

@Xonas Pitfall God has no other in his infinity bubble.

There is no real definition of god. It's human language to describe God, don't hang up on human word games.

[ImagineEverything]

Since I experienced God-Realization and Solipsism recently (after years of practices) I feel compelled to comment. While watching Leo´s God-Realization episode, while being Extremely conscious, the video led me to have the Insight that I am creating my own experience/creating my own, separate life at all times. There was a period of about 5 – 10 minutes (in human time) where I was in complete God-Mode. I experienced myself as the Creator of my own Illusion. I was completely and absolutely Alone there, and I knew it will be that way forever since there is nowhere to go. Everything I experience is myself and there is no way to escape that fact. There was an intuition that I am immortal and alone forever. As soon as I understood that, there was a strong desire to have the Illusion of separation and “otherness/other minds” back, because why not? It´s not that God-Mode is better than human-mode per se. It´s more fun playing with the idea that other humans and animals, other minds exist. Just play with it (other minds) and don´t take it too seriously. There is a reason an all powerful, all intelligent Being/God designed human life the way that it is. Trust that.

 

After continuing watching Leo´s God-Realization episode I recognized this intelligence of the Beauty of Separation in Leo as well, because after explaining what God really is he continues to willingly/consciously spin more of the Illusion by adding more and more content about God, which creates further separation from God-Mode and tricks you back into the Game of Life.

 

So experiencing true Solipsism is very shocking, but not as bad as you think. After all, the outside Reality/world is business as usual. Nothing really changed and you can live life as usual, connect with your friends, lovers, family and people on this forum still authentically.

 

Note: I am aware that self-deception is still and always possible. I am always open to being wrong, not-knowing stuff and upgrading my understanding in the future.

 

Edit: To be precise I switched into and again out of God-Mode/Absolute Solipsism repeatedly over a period of about 3 - 4 hours on that day.

Edited yesterday at 09:35 PM by ImagineEverything

[Meeksauce]

10 hours ago, OBEler said:

@Razard86 lol has someone ever did that, stealing someone else's body while he trips on Salvia?

 

On 8/3/2025 at 3:38 AM, Leo Gura said:

You guys still aren't understanding what God is.

You are God. The one and only. You're still thinking that you are part of God rather than God itself. You're being too humble.

I took 6 grams of shrooms once and my consciousness became tethered to Terence McKenna's, who was obviously in the past but it didn't matter. It felt incredibly real at the time, I could hear his voice and everything. Like I would hit my foot on something and he would say "I felt that". Every thought and visual I experienced was also being experienced by him. Anyways, he said he had taken 10 grams and was way in over his head so I needed to save him from his bad trip. It was extremely difficult, the whole time I was fighting to stay afloat and not let my mind go to dark places. I ended up listening to ambient music with rain for most of the trip, but nothing seemed to make his trip better. I was literally talking with him the whole time and at some point I asked like "does this happen often" and he said "oh yeah I do this all the time!" It honestly makes sense to me because since he helped introduce shrooms to the US and is effectly the shroom godfather, if the spirit of the mushroom is a real thing it definitely knows about Terence. Anyways, real or not, the shrooms were definitely able to produce a replica version of his consciousness in mine. It was like having two trips at once while communicating telepathically.

On 8/1/2025 at 8:25 AM, Hojo said:

@Meeksauce are you saying you need a second to verify that the first has them all? In that case I would argue then you need a third to meditate the 2 cause the 

On 8/1/2025 at 7:56 AM, Someone here said:

with all honesty I have no clue . Leo says go get wasted on 5 meo a hundred times and then you will get it and it will stick. So I'm setting that as a goal .but my gut feeling is that solipsism is obviously true despite how radical and far fetched it seems . Because there is a lot of suspicious phenomenon in life that points to this .but the bottom line is I'm agnostic about it .

 

On 8/1/2025 at 7:44 AM, Wilhelm44 said:

Likewise it's also impossible to prove solipsism. 

On 8/1/2025 at 7:44 AM, Wilhelm44 said:

 

[Xonas Pitfall]

11 hours ago, OBEler said:

@Xonas Pitfall God has no other in his infinity bubble.

There is no real definition of god. It's human language to describe God, don't hang up on human word games.

Quote

God has no other in his infinity bubble.

This alone is a definition, haha: 'God is a Self with no Other.'

Everything can be defined, even God, but not in the sense of an 'actual' definition or limitation. Instead, it's about providing better sentences, definitions, and pointers to it. Even if it's something unknowable and infinite, you can still call it that and provide a better pointer than, say, the Christian definition or 'pointer.'

19 hours ago, OBEler said:

No. You are god. You can reach to other gods outside of you because you are god.

This is the contradictory part: you can "reach" "other" gods, which implies something 'outside' of God, with a boundary that must be 'reached' and then united with. Now, again, if you are just telling me that God can create illusory limitations for itself and fool itself into becoming infinite gods, but in the end, all of those boundaries are illusory and there is only God, nothing outside of God, nothing unknowable and unreachable, then I agree. But if you're saying there are other absolutes outside of God, that completely contradicts the logic.

What is the boundary made of if not God? If it isn't God, then what is it? If it is God, then you have God separating God into other gods, which are all still God, so it's all illusionary and one.

My critique of Leo was that he should’ve been clearer in his language when making the replies, or else it can seem contradictory if not clarified further.

Edited 15 hours ago by Xonas Pitfall

[OBEler]

@Xonas Pitfall  with the help of Chatgpt4 about Leo Infinity of gods:

God is so infinitely powerful that it can imagine itself as being absolutely separate from itself — infinitely many times — and each imagined "version" becomes totally real within itself.

Each “God” is an absolute sentient bubble of awareness that imagines itself as fully isolated.That isolation is an illusion — but a perfect one. So perfect that each God becomes a total Sovereign Infinity.

Infinite Gods exist, each believing they are the only one — and each is absolutely right within their own reality.The boundary is imaginary, self-created.The sovereignty is total, but only within a self-contained dream.Infinity allows for infinite mutually exclusive realities — all true within themselves, all part of the One.

You can’t meet another sentient God as an “other”.Each sentient God is its own bubble of Infinity. That bubble contains everything it will ever experience — including “others,” but only as its own projections.

In your reality, there are no truly independent sentient beings.Only you, dreaming sentient others into being.And in their reality, the same is true — but you'll never be in that one, unless you become it.

Two Gods could dream each other simultaneously in a shared scenario.But even then, each one is actually dreaming the whole thing from its own side.There's no actual overlap — only parallel, perfectly synchronized solipsistic dreams. But you’ll never access another God’s internal sentience — only what you imagine it to be.

 

Shared dream is possible — but it’s voluntary.Principle Explanation:

 Sovereignty Each God can dream alone, totally freely.

Union Requires both to willingly align their dream content.

Love The force that motivates God to limit itself for communion.

Synchronization Happens through co-imagining the same reality — not through shared space, but through shared intent.

@Leo Gura I hope this is congruent to your infinity of God video.

Edited 12 hours ago by OBEler

[Xonas Pitfall]

45 minutes ago, OBEler said:

@Xonas Pitfall  as Leo also said there is the possibility that there are other absolute gods completely outside of God. 

But do you see the contradiction in that statement?

Again, just based on pure definitional or tautological logic:

Leo said it himself: God is a Self that has no Other, nothing outside of itself (this makes sense definitionally and by implication, since infinity holds everything within itself, so it makes sense that nothing can be outside of it, since it holds everything, leaving nothing left out).

So if you say:

Quote

Leo also mentioned that there is the possibility of other absolute gods completely outside of God, completely outside of God

That's impossible. Because then the question is: what's the boundary between them made of? Do you understand my question?

If I have an apple, air, and another apple, the boundary or separation between them is that "space of air", amongst other things, it is separate from the two apples. But if you have everythingness or an absolute and another everythingness absolute, what's separating them? Since they both are like black holes sucking everything into themselves, and by definition, they must be all infinity, eventually, they must include each other into oneness, aka God, which has nothing separate from itself. Am I making sense?

[OBEler]

@Xonas Pitfall I recognized this contradiction and edited my message on previous post please read again for clarification .

 

[Xonas Pitfall]

@OBEler Exactly, I agree with this! That's exactly why I pointed it out in Leo's reply.

I asked this:

Quote

 

But this is still not debunking solipsism, correct? I think this is the confusing part. It’s still all made of God, and inside of God, whether that’s infinite gods, they still have to be 'mini' gods or a second order of the absolute, no? Otherwise, the logic collapses. There has to be an infinite "object" that encapsulates all, even if it holds other infinities within itself.

 

Leo replied:

Quote

No, I am talking about the possibility of different Gods which have no contact with each other.

It is the notion of multiple Absolute Minds.

Imagine infinite different Absolutes.

This is a twisted notion.

If he did mean what you wrote, then I feel like it could’ve been written much better. For example, like you said:

Quote

Shared dream is possible — but it’s voluntary.

Quote

Two Gods could dream each other simultaneously in a shared scenario.But even then, each one is actually dreaming the whole thing from its own side.

This way, you are clarifying that God is still the absolute, and that there is no 'other,' which is consistent with solipsism. Everything that’s happening is within the shared dream where God has given up His infinity and omnipotence, so there could be multiple Gods' connections, love, and shared dreams.

[Water by the River]

@Xonas Pitfall 

How to leave a door open on something one is not sure of? Declare that x% of your teachings are wrong and justify that with "to get the herd to think for itself."

Infinity of Gods is indeed where the not-fully-empty psychedelic explorer ends up—still having an identification arising as being God/Reality/whatever. Plot twist: That Absolute Reality can do very well without any identification and concept. Such as... before the birth of your parents.

"Absolutes" in the plural is a contradiction in itself.

The real Absolute is that One (without a second) that is aware of all of those "Gods"/Void-Universes/Realms/Dimensions, which "It" manifests in its own Infinite Reality—the only Reality there is.

One Absolute/God reaching out to another Absolute/God, but of course doing that voluntarily, because otherwise they could never really intersect- since each is sovereign and infinite and fundamentally separate (that is, with the exception that sometimes these two God - chaps reach out to each other)? If that is not a (just appearing) dualistic story, I don't know what is.

Koan: Who or what is aware of that funny story/appearance?

 

Selling Water by the River (without a second)

 

PS: https://www.actualized.org/forum/search/?q=%22%20Infinity%20of%20Gods%22&author=Water%20by%20the%20River&sortby=relevancy

 

Edited 10 hours ago by Water by the River

[OBEler]

@Xonas Pitfall yes with the help of Chatgpt4 Leos  ideas on very deep and difficult topics like Solipsim become very understandable and there would be not so much confusion left in this forum.

I hope Leo by writing your book you get the help of AI as much as possible. AI is too good in that.

Edited 10 hours ago by OBEler

[Xonas Pitfall]

@Water by the River

Correct!

I do think there is some merit or need to explain this: God is a Self that has no Other. That’s the ultimate 'limitation' or issue with God: He cannot be an Other or ever meet an Other, so He keeps looping and creating infinite Others. Hence, why Love is so precious to us and God. It feels like God is this infinitely moving object that follows this exact loop:

Quote

‘I am a Self’ -> But wait, I am infinite, so I have to hold an Other too, right? -> Of course! So I create an Other -> I am now a more complete Self -> But now I need another Other, right? -> Of course! -> And so it continues infinitely.

This is how God works, it seems. So I assume the 'infinity of gods' episode was trying to illustrate this loop properly about God, but just failed to address the fact that it’s still solipsistic, and there is an absolute, singular God.