I tried Leo's sitting down and staring at hand experiment - I have questions

[LoneWonderer]

Hey everybody. As the title reads I have now attempted several times Leo's experiment of looking at an object ( in this case my hand) with great focus for an extended period of time. I will describe my results below and will leave questions in the final section.

Min 3-5: As I am intensly staring at a signle point on my hand, slowly the outline and edge of my hand (starting with my fingers and slowly working it's way up) begin to be enveloped in a white light, blurring the boundary beetween my hand and the background. Also the skin on my hand begins to become waivy like like it's moving and morphing while reamaining in it's place at the same time. I am only able to witness this from the periferals of my vision as all my focus is on a single point on my hand. Throughout the experience this single point stays in focus however.

Min 5-10: Slowly the edges of my hand and the background begin to merge into a type of white light, the distinction beetween background, foreground and hand begin to become blurred. My brain is struggling to deal with this. Like a camera lense that wont focus my eyes and brain keep trying to bring the hand back into focus. It's becoming increasingly difficult to focus on the single point on my hand (which remains in focus and looking like skin on a hand) as my brain screams for me to switch focus to the rest of my hand that's quicly dissapearing into white light along with the background and foreground. I am also starting to make out tiny fractal patterns in the white light.

Min 15-20: This is as long as I lasted. At this point there where quick moments millisecond in duration in which parts of my entire vision in one eye gets envepoled in this white light. My brain is starting to loose focus from the point on my hand and every time I look away from my point of focus my hand reappears in it's entirety. however the second I bring focus back to my point of focus the hand is again enveloped in a whitish light. I feel it's hard to start to make a distinction beetween the border of my hand and the couch on which it is resting. I tried to do what Leo suggested of slowly moving my hand but every time I shifted focus away from my one point the entire hand came straight back into focus.

 

I have now done this a couple of times. These have been my results. That same day I did a 30mg dose of 5 meo dmt and tried the experiment again (Note I've never had realizations of infinity on 5meo dmt either) the same thing happened when i retired the experiemnt while on the substance however it was much quicker to get to this state around min 5-10 instead took less that a minute.

My Questions:

Does this process sound correct to others who have attempted this experiment? I did not have any realizations into the nature of infinity and I'm wondering is it that I have to keep trying to extend these sessions beyond 20min to 1-2 hours to realize something? It all felt more like a trick of the eyes, an optical illusion. What can I do differently next time?

Thank you

Edited yesterday at 08:53 PM by LoneWonderer

[Inliytened1]

@LoneWonderer before I get into all your questions.  I want you to answer me one thing.  Can you understand the difference between actuality (when you stare at the hand and its actual) and if you imagine your hand by placing it behind your head and imagining looking at the hand.  Can you grasp the difference? One is actual and the other is concept.  Thats all there is to spirituality.

 

Edited yesterday at 08:48 PM by Inliytened1

[LoneWonderer]

@Inliytened1 One being concepts, ideas words and the other actual experience (nameless, present experience). Is this what you mean? Yes, I understand hand as a concept and as actuality it's just I've written "My hand" in this post to help explain to people. Maybe I'm going about this wrong...I understand there is not really "My hand" That's resting on "a couch" that it's just one continuous experience...I understand these things intellectually, I've even seen it on 5 meo dmt. However no insight, no definitive lightning bolt that this is the real nature of reality. Just always felt like illusions of "a brain or mind". What I'm seeking is insight into the true nature of reality devoid of illusions and concepts.

Edited 23 hours ago by LoneWonderer

[samijiben]

I think the problem here is outsourcing your intelligence to Leo. Leo is not smarter than you. He also knows nothing!

[Inliytened1]

6 minutes ago, LoneWonderer said:

@Inliytened1 One being concepts, ideas words and the other actual experience (nameless, present experience). Is this what you mean? Yes, I understand hand as a concept and as actuality it's just I've written "My hand" in this post to help explain to people. Maybe I'm going about this wrong...I understand there is not really "My hand" That's resting on "a couch" that it's just one continuous experience...

That. Actual experience.  It isn't just your experience.  You ARE it. Actuality is none other than you. Self and other must collapse here and then that is awakening

I think what you are doing is focusing too much even still on the concept of what point on the hand you are staring at.  The point is to embrace the actuality of the hand.  

[Inliytened1]

7 minutes ago, samijiben said:

I think the problem here is outsourcing your intelligence to Leo. Leo is not smarter than you. He also knows nothing!

He is you. And he is just an extension of your own intelligence.  You are indeed imagining all of reality as a God. Thus he is an extension of you.  And the actuality vs concept episode about staring at your hand is vital to awakening and enlightenment. 

Edited 23 hours ago by Inliytened1

[LoneWonderer]

2 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

I think what you are doing is focusing too much even still on the concept of what point on the hand you are staring at.  The point is to embrace the actuality of the hand.  

You are correct, I'd been concentrating on a concept (a single point on "my hand") instead of focusing on actual present experience. I hand't realized that. I will try this next time. Does this sound about right to you? Thank you

[Inliytened1]

36 minutes ago, LoneWonderer said:

You are correct, I'd been concentrating on a concept (a single point on "my hand") instead of focusing on actual present experience. I hand't realized that. I will try this next time. Does this sound about right to you? Thank you

Yes.  Just be actual.  

Edited 23 hours ago by Inliytened1

[Inliytened1]

46 minutes ago, samijiben said:

I think the problem here is outsourcing your intelligence to Leo. Leo is not smarter than you. He also knows nothing!

How absolutely intelligent would it be to split your intelligence into multiple Beings. And no one would ever know.  They would think you were dumb.

  

Edited 23 hours ago by Inliytened1

[samijiben]

2 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

How absolutely intelligent would it be to split your intelligence into multiple Beings. And no one would ever know.  They would think you were dumb.

  

Whatever dude, have a good day

[Inliytened1]

1 minute ago, samijiben said:

Whatever dude, have a good day

You gotta admit it would be kinda cool.

[LoneWonderer]

@Inliytened1

15 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Yes.  Just be actual.  

Thank you

[Leo Gura]

@LoneWonderer Some tips:

• You don't have to focus on one point. It could be better to focus on the entire hand. So you aren't straining so hard. Relax your focus so it's not so effortful. Just keep looking at your entire hand. Allow your eyes to move across your hand. Don't keep them locked.
• Try to keep mind chatter down. Try not to comment on your experience to yourself. Just sit with relaxed focus and be still and at peace.
• Try to not-know the hand. Remove all conventional knowing of it, so that the hand becomes somewhat unrecognized. It starts to looks weird.
• Slowly moving your fingers and hand is good too. It's like playing with your hand.
• Do it for an hour at a time.
• Try to gently remind yourself that your hand is Absolute Truth/God.
• Try to gently remind yourself that your hand is Consciousness and imaginary.

That's it. It's hard to fail here. Whatever happens is good.

Edited 21 hours ago by Leo Gura

[integration journey]

Doing this in the forest or the woods is amazing. I felt like a caveman who just discovered fire but I was just contemplating the beauty of my hand haha

[ExploringReality]

@Leo Gura

Perfect tips. Thanks Leo. Don't we all feel like a commentator on experiences? Like there's this invisible narrator, talking and saying what the hand is.

[LoneWonderer]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

@LoneWonderer Some tips:

• You don't have to focus on one point. It could be better to focus on the entire hand. So you aren't straining so hard. Relax your focus so it's not so effortful. Just keep looking at your entire hand. Allow your eyes to move across your hand. Don't keep them locked.
• Try to keep mind chatter down. Try not to comment on your experience to yourself. Just sit with relaxed focus and be still and at peace.
• Try to not-know the hand. Remove all conventional knowing of it, so that the hand becomes somewhat unrecognized. It starts to looks weird.
• Slowly moving your fingers and hand is good too. It's like playing with your hand.
• Do it for an hour at a time.
• Try to gently remind yourself that your hand is Absolute Truth/God.
• Try to gently remind yourself that your hand is Consciousness and imaginary.

That's it. It's hard to fail here. Whatever happens is good.

Thank you very much Leo! 🙏

[ZenSwift]

This reminds me of recently I would be lying down with my arm behind my head and I'm aware that my arm doesn't fuckin exist. Shit's fucked! 

[Inliytened1]

8 hours ago, ZenSwift said:

This reminds me of recently I would be lying down with my arm behind my head and I'm aware that my arm doesn't fuckin exist. Shit's fucked! 

Very

But awesome simultaneously 

[MutedMiles]

This reminds me of staring at my self in the mirror few years back, not sure why it started it was a practice I did for a while. And at one point I was staring at something truly unknown and it scared me. I didn't knew what that thing was in the mirror.
The fear was kind of addictive, like something scary and interesting at the same time. so I visited it few more times. But couldn't stay with it for long.

Needless to say the practice stopped as it started on it's own.

Edited 2 hours ago by MutedMiles

[freddyteisen]

@Leo Gura Seriously valuable tips. Thanks.

Can you switch focus between both hands? Can you also shift your focus to other objects in the room (I.e. use that heightened awareness for other objects?)

Should you look at them sober or can you add a psychedelic to the experience?

What to do when the mind says: “this is utterly useless. Why the f*k am I looking at my hand? There’s absolutely no point and nothing to gain from that.”

Edited 38 minutes ago by freddyteisen