Reason Why Enlightenment is Difficult for you and if happened what is waiting

[James123]

15 hours ago, SOUL said:

If you imagine 'must' then 'must' it is for you but don't project your 'must' on some imagined others, let go of the musty....or not, you can stay musty.

If there is "person", it is "must" from them. you can use the word of "can". However, I do not see any other way.

[SOUL]

21 minutes ago, James123 said:

If there is "person", it is "must" from them. you can use the word of "can". However, I do not see any other way.

Of course, you cannot see any other way, it's what you have created for yourself and placed in the way. It's a self fulfilling prophesy, since you have envisioned the obstacle and constructed it. If you had not, it would not and then you could see another way.

[James123]

3 minutes ago, SOUL said:

Of course, you cannot see any other way, it's what you have created for yourself and placed in the way. It's a self fulfilling prophesy, since you have envisioned the obstacle and constructed it. If you had not, it would not and then you could see another way.

Definitely not. There is no place for "you" in stillness or effortlessness. you or i is the action itself.

Could you please give me an example of an action in order to be still or effortless?

[SOUL]

10 minutes ago, James123 said:

Definitely not. There is no place for "you" in stillness or effortlessness. you or i is the action itself.

Could you please give me an example of an action in order to be still or effortless?

Begging the question is not asking a question, it's a disingenuous exercise in seeking what one thinks they already know. Read the quote in your own signature.

Quote

"It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows."

 

[James123]

15 minutes ago, SOUL said:

Begging the question is not asking a question, it's a disingenuous exercise in seeking what one thinks they already know. Read the quote in your own signature.

Effortlessness, stillness, being or actionless is not an exercise. Completely opposite.

Therefore, "It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows.". 

Love you. 

 

[SOUL]

22 minutes ago, James123 said:

Effortlessness, stillness, being or actionless is not an exercise. Completely opposite.

Therefore, "It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows.". 

Love you. 

 

Although, misdirection is an activity. You asking a loaded question you think you know the answer to is an exercise and then you trying to misdirect that to something else is also an exercise.

Of course, you will probably retort with that there is no 'you' that is 'doing' this so exercise the misdirection even more.

[Hojo]

I saw a video yesterday that when a person is awakened and then they are still unsure about wether they even want spirituality or earth life that the guru who awakens them will send them to heaven so they can finish what they want to do. Then the person will make up their next life after to finish awakening.

[samijiben]

Physical death is only neccesary to reach Enlightenment because we set it up that way — we are the ones who made it so that only physical death will save us. So it is not the case that this is true because that's just how the universe works. The universe has the possibility to construct itself from the ground up in whateverwhich way, so you could also set it up where $20,000 is the Holy Grail... just sayin.

[James123]

On 7/16/2025 at 7:18 PM, SOUL said:

Although, misdirection is an activity. You asking a loaded question you think you know the answer to is an exercise and then you trying to misdirect that to something else is also an exercise.

Of course, you will probably retort with that there is no 'you' that is 'doing' this so exercise the misdirection even more.

All I am saying is effortlessness is not an activity. 

Attachment with one word is a belief, therefore activity.

Therefore, Believing in "there is no you" is an activity.

However, If this is misdirection for you, I respect that.

Much love. ❤️ 

[SOUL]

17 minutes ago, James123 said:

All I am saying is effortlessness is not an activity. 

Attachment with one word is a belief, therefore activity.

Therefore, Believing in "there is no you" is an activity.

However, If this is misdirection for you, I respect that.

Much love. ❤️ 

So is believing one "must" for enlightenment an activity...in addition to the activity that is believed "must" be done, two distinct activities and two distinct beliefs. Hm?

What about believing effortlessness is not an activity and it holds some significance or benefit? That's an activity or two, too.

Edited 11 hours ago by SOUL

[UnbornTao]

On 7/15/2025 at 11:22 PM, Breakingthewall said:

Break yourself into a thousand pieces so the sun can pass through you, says Rumi.

Where is the sun in your enlightenment?

It's cloudy today.

[SOUL]

2 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

On 7/15/2025 at 3:22 PM, Breakingthewall said:

Break yourself into a thousand pieces so the sun can pass through you, says Rumi.

Where is the sun in your enlightenment?

It's cloudy today.

...at night.

[UnbornTao]

Just now, SOUL said:

...at night.

[James123]

8 hours ago, SOUL said:

So is believing one "must" for enlightenment an activity...in addition to the activity that is believed "must" be done, two distinct activities and two distinct beliefs. Hm?

What about believing effortlessness is not an activity and it holds some significance or benefit? That's an activity or two, too.

As I said in the thread, "must let go or effortlessness". Even if one attach with word of "letting go, surrendering, effortlessness or actionless", implications of these words are still letting go 😊 therefore, one can not attach to these words or any words, when one simply let go, surrender or is effortless.

[Davino]

@James123 Are you enlightened then? Speaking from that source?

On 15/7/2025 at 11:52 PM, James123 said:

After all these surrendered, it comes to mind, body and last breath, when those are surrendered you die. Then there is no experience, experiencer, realization, you, me, god, infinite etc... disseappears. Just, nothing is there or blank or complete disseappearing, complete Being (That's what You really are is). Therefore, completely forgetting everything as before so called birth. 

Could you explain me more about the day you got enlightened? Where you doing meditation? Or any particular technique? How was that moment from where you derive these quoted words as truth?

[kbone]

9 hours ago, James123 said:

All I am saying is effortlessness is not an activity. 

Attachment with one word is a belief, therefore activity.

Therefore, Believing in "there is no you" is an activity.

However, If this is misdirection for you, I respect that.

Much love. ❤️ 

Roight. Effortlessness is the emergent word used to point to a mind informed of and aware of its 'secondary status'. the mind is a useless tool for GNOSSISING, and it can only be 'needed' in worldly (dream) affairs that arise.

While the mind 'can' be used to ponder and explore existential matters with appearing 'others', it is noticed that it can also be a slippery slope, and that that is when/where beliefs are born. It can also be noticed that the more such activity/efforting is done, the more one potentially wades out into the river of ignorance, where the currents can carry the attention away, falling into greater and greater confusion and delusion. Lots of so called self-proclaimed 'teachers' do such things, not having settled into the Realization enough, unaware of the mind's degree of ignorance. It can be hard to gauge the appearance of other minds' 'depth of being informed', but mind-driven peeps do all sorts of efforting, believing all sorts of nonsense, while ignorant of effortlessness. Plus, in the age of screen peeps, language is overly relied upon, somewhat cut off from the non-linguistic forms of communication.

Chatting on line and/or in relations with otherness are worldly dealios in which the mind is engaged. The apparent mind (a tool) typically uses the tool of language to navigate, negotiate, communicate....  in this dreamlike realm. But language, mostly geared for the appearing world of cause-effect, can seem almost awkward for these speerchal matters. So, here 'we are' having these convos online about the ND perspective which, practically speaking, undermines even speerchuality. Most self-identified peeps get caught up in the inherent paradoxes presented in such discussions due to linguistically conditioned perceptions.  They end up engaging from a self-identified perception, resistant to the cognitive dissonance, unable to be open to much less SEE 'from' the ND perspective. But it is a very simple twist that, once SEEN, canNOT be unseen. The bell canNOT be unrung, and it has been echoing the Truth for apparent millenia in the HERE and NOW.