Why you don't live in the world / But in the Source

[Inliytened1]

Just now, Breakingthewall said:

That's just an idea. Enlightenment is openess, believe me. It's in another plane. Maybe anyone gets it as an intuition, and doesn't get stuck in the idea of no thought as enlightenment as I was for long time 

It's not just an idea. It is literal. Have you accepted the fact that there is no physical universe?  Yay or nay.  I just want to know from your heart. And don't give me some BS about how open Infinity is.  I don't care.

[Breakingthewall]

1 minute ago, Inliytened1 said:

It's not just an idea. It is literal. Have you accepted the fact that there is no physical universe?  Yay or nay.  I just want to know from your heart. And don't give me some BS about how open Infinity is.  I don't care.

"Physical universe" is just an idea that is the opposite of: "non physical universe". It is meaning. Enlightenment is out of meaning because it's total. Total is impossible to define because definitions happen in it, are relative. Physical universe is relative, nonexistent physical universe the same. If you don't believe it it's ok, but I think that many spiritual traditions agree, maybe tao te quing, or some kind of Buddhism. I think that what I'm saying is not offensive or unrespectful 

[Inliytened1]

1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

"Physical universe" is just an idea that is the opposite of: "non physical universe". It is meaning. Enlightenment is out of meaning because it's total. Total is impossible to define because definitions happen in it, are relative. Physical universe is relative, nonexistent physical universe the same. If you don't believe it it's ok, but I think that many spiritual traditions agree, maybe tao te quing, or some kind of Buddhism. I think that what I'm saying is not offensive or unrespectful 

Don't let relativity trap you.  Thats what you are doing here.

[kbone]

As for the thread title, "Why you don't live in the world / But in the Source", I'd poke at it like this... and with all due respect. @James123 is steadfast, direct, and a loving dream-character in my book. 

What is initially realized is profound, and often initiates the utter collapse of the entire thought structure previously understood by the mind as reality. Once the dust settles, the realization seems to point to the mind-based fact that, conceptually speaking, reality is in/of the world (i.e., existence), and what was/is Realized is inclusive of reality. This gives rise to the idea of illusion, perhaps, as if what is perceived is NOT the entire reality (such a problematic word, hehe). This, neurologically speaking, is the left-brained/logical expression, which is limited... still. The integration that is often alluded to, is to employ the right-brain, in the embodiment process in "the return".

This latter part, the complete integration 'after the return', is what Zen Masters would be testing for (See: koans, Zen stories between master and monks, etc.... they can get pretty extreme, AND why they often gravitate around paradoxes - which are always born of the thinking mind, and not the open mind-heart).  'Together', they are what the  Sino-Japanese character for mind pointed to ( 心 ). To add a further twist for students of the language, the exact same character is used for heart. Ch'an/Zen pointed to the full-on realization of (capitalized in order to distinguish) One Mind ( 一心, '一' means one or united), as the source of all that exists. Even that superficial understanding does not grasp the grasplessness of it, of course, as there were never 'two' to be united (which is the realization of 'not two'- non-duality). Some called it the Void, due to ITS inexplicable nature, beyond words, concepts.... mind.... IT is not a thing, but THAT in which all existence arises. Pisses the mind off during the search, hehe. 

So, how would I write the title? It would probably depend on the context, inclusive of the peep spoken to, the prior discussion/context, the goal of the interaction, the intensity of the peep, etc. But here are a few to tinker with:

+Why you don't live in the world, but are in/as Source

+Why you live in the world, but are not necessarily of it (Refers to the Bible, while not a direct quote, John 17, where he prayed for his followers, emphasizing that they are in the world but not of it)

+ Why the world is in the Source, but not necessarily of it

Depending on the context (again), I might even go to the extreme Advaita Vedanta that Ramana or Niz often used, and say there is no 'you', but YOU in which existence unfolds. Lots of expressions....

All of this, it appears, James has realized, but he can chime in if he'd like.

 

On a more inquisitive and then somber note:

This may allude to reasons why when during conversations, many cultures, when referring to "me", will often point to their chest  (heart). Interestingly, when the Japanese do the same gesture, they point at their face (which is how most are remembered by 'other people'). However, when committing suicide, statistics show that three times more people will shoot themselves in the head (mind) than in the heart. Hmmm...

Edited Monday at 11:15 AM by kbone

[Natasha Tori Maru]

20 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

If you are in total silence, there is still barrier. It's easy to be in mental silence if you practice meditation, anyone who does can after a while. But that doesn't implies that your being is open. That's why people try 5meo, 1000 ug of LSD and those things. To break the barrier.

This sounds like you haven't done the work to integrate and have misunderstood as a result. When all thought stops, there is no self. Being emerges as the experience where all is unified. Either you are using english words in ways that aren't universally agreed upon, or you haven't experienced this without a substance assisting you. And no integration to facilitate understanding as a result.

20 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

The thoughts are happening in the now, are the now. Enlightenment is not silence and direct perception of the now, is the opening to the real substance of the reality.

No, thoughts aren't happening. Thoughts aren't the substance of experience. Thoughts are something you are DOING. You are DOING the thoughts. They aren't some magical thing that happens. 

If you haven't realized you are actually doing the thoughts, how can you stop something you don't even realize you are doing?!? Yet above you state you were not thinking. But you haven't identified you are doing it. You see how that's unconscious? The exact opposite direction you want to go?

Edited Monday at 11:07 AM by Natasha Tori Maru

[Breakingthewall]

3 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Don't let relativity trap you.  Thats what you are doing here.

Look, just a logical reasoning: enlightenment is the realization of the absolute. Do you agree? Let's say that yes. Then, in the absolute, how could you realize that there is not Physical world, and the reality is an idea? It's impossible, because if you do, you would be in the relative. Don't you see it? In the absolute it's nothing that can be defined because it would be relative to anything else. Can be more obvious? The absolute is absolute, period. Then you see the relative, and you realize: fuck, this relative things that appears are made of the absolute, are the absolute in a form or perspective. Then, from this perspective seems that the reality is not physical....but who knows, it's just a perspective. Don't you see it?

[Breakingthewall]

1 minute ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

thoughts aren't happening. Thoughts aren't the substance of experience. Thoughts are something you are DOING. You are DOING the thoughts

Then I'm not happening? I'm not a facet of the reality, and the thought so? It's the reality in one side and me in another? That's what the non duality masters claim: reality is dual, and that's non duality. 

 

3 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

you haven't realized you are actually doing the thoughts, how can you stop something you don't even realize you are doing?!?

I'm also walking and I can stop walking, that's doesn't mean that me walking is not an arising of the reality, the reality itself 

 

5 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

This sounds like you haven't done the work to integrate and have misunderstood as a result. When all thought stops, there is no self.

Then a cat has no self? Prick it with a needle, you will see if he has a self, you will see it painfully

[Inliytened1]

3 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Look, just a logical reasoning: enlightenment is the realization of the absolute. Do you agree? Let's say that yes. Then, in the absolute, how could you realize that there is not Physical world, and the reality is an idea? It's impossible, because if you do, you would be in the relative. Don't you see it? In the absolute it's nothing that can be defined because it would be relative to anything else. Can be more obvious? The absolute is absolute, period. Then you see the relative, and you realize: fuck, this relative things that appears are made of the absolute, are the absolute in a form or perspective. Then, from this perspective seems that the reality is not physical....but who knows, it's just a perspective. Don't you see it?

Precisely.  Don't stray from logic. It can serve you in end.  Do you not think that the Absolute is not omniscient? If it is, then it must have thought of everything.  

[Breakingthewall]

Just now, Inliytened1 said:

Precisely.  Don't stray from logic. It can serve you in end.  Do you not think that the Absolute is not omniscient? If it is, then it must have thought of everything.  

If you mix the thought of everything and everything is infinite, then there is no definite thought, no definite nothing, just absolute without opposite, that's enlightenment. Anything that is defined, like "there is no physical world" is relative. Anything definite is relation with its opposite, the absolute is without relation, is where relationship can happen. This is a logical explanation and it's impossible to denying, but the point is being open to it for some moments, really. 

[Inliytened1]

2 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

If you mix the thought of everything and everything is infinite, then there is no definite thought, no definite nothing, just absolute without opposite, that's enlightenment. Anything that is defined, like "there is no physical world" is relative. Anything definite is relation with its opposite, the absolute is without relation, is where relationship can happen. This is a logical explanation and it's impossible to denying, but the point is being open to it for some moments, really. 

There are Absolutes. The truth about reality is an Absolute.  It is Mind.  Period.  This is simply an Absolute that you have not become conscious of. 

Edited Monday at 11:19 AM by Inliytened1

[Natasha Tori Maru]

8 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Then I'm not happening? I'm not a facet of the reality, and the thought so? It's the reality in one side and me in another? That's what the non duality masters claim: reality is dual, and that's non duality. 

 

I'm also walking and I can stop walking, that's doesn't mean that me walking is not an arising of the reality, the reality itself 

 

Then a cat has no self? Prick it with a needle, you will see if he has a self, you will see it painfully

You are being. Human BEING. Experience. Just because you can enter a state of non-thinking doesn't mean you are separate from reality.

You can stop walking because you know you are walking. If you don't know you are walking - how can you stop? Can a fish recognize it is in water???

The cat has survival & consciousness. A lower level to that of a human. It does not limit itself as a human does to this 'self' with perceptions that create a future/past and stories that induce suffering - that doesn't exist in reality. The body feels pain. By 'no-self' I don't mean NO BODY. I mean the construct of the self is made up. You are just experience. And you don't need thought to experience.

Edited Monday at 11:20 AM by Natasha Tori Maru

[kbone]

 

[kbone]

47 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Don't let relativity trap you.  Thats what you are doing here.

🎯

[kbone]

28 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

You are being. Human BEING. Experience. Just because you can enter a state of non-thinking doesn't mean you are separate from reality.

You can stop walking because you know you are walking. If you don't know you are walking - how can you stop? Can a fish recognize it is in water???

The cat has survival & consciousness. A lower level to that of a human. It does not limit itself as a human does to this 'self' with perceptions that create a future/past and stories that induce suffering - that doesn't exist in reality. The body feels pain. By 'no-self' I don't mean NO BODY. I mean the construct of the self is made up. You are just experience. And you don't need thought to experience.

🎯

[Breakingthewall]

39 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

self' with perceptions that create a future/past and stories that induce suffering - that doesn't exist in reality.

They obviously exist since they are. They are another plane of reality, but in essence are the same. Neo advaita says: thought are not real, are maya, the reality is non thought. This is duality. You can be in absolute silence and closed. In the past I believed that of no thought, like anyone else because sounds logical and seductive, but if you are insightful you will intuit that something is missing there. 

Enlightenment is opening yourself to the absolute, the thoughts are an expression of the absolute, like anything else. It's true that if you get attached to the content of the thought you are closed, but same if you are attached to fear, the problem is that the second is not no obvious because it's not conceptual, it's the deep programming of the human form. There are many layers of energetic barriers, and until you don't collapse the duality between thought and reality you can't start to go deep into them

Edited Monday at 11:59 AM by Breakingthewall

[Breakingthewall]

43 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

The truth about reality is an Absolute.  It is Mind.  Period.  This is simply an Absolute

There can't be "an" absolute, only the absolute, and it's not a mind, a mind is relation between opposites. A mind happens relatively in the absolute. The absolute is absolute and nothing else can't be said about it, because anything that you say is relative. Can be more obvious?

Edited Monday at 12:02 PM by Breakingthewall

[Inliytened1]

2 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

There can't be "an" absolute, only the absolute, and it's not a mind, a mind is relation between opposites. A mind happens relatively in the absolute. The absolute is absolute and nothing else can't be said about it, because anything that you say is relative. Can be more obvious?

It can't be more obvious that Mind is the source.   

[James123]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

That's just an idea. Enlightenment is openess, believe me. It's in another plane. Maybe anyone gets it as an intuition, and doesn't get stuck in the idea of no thought as enlightenment as I was for long time 

Just try to comprehend this:

Why there was nothing before your so called birth? Why there is nothing while in deep sleep or deep meditation?

If you haven't realize why is that, no one can help you via writing. Have to realize your own.

 

[Breakingthewall]

6 minutes ago, James123 said:

Why there was nothing before your so called birth? Why there is nothing while in deep sleep or deep meditation?

How do you know that before your so called birth there was nothing? Because you don't remember it? Better focus in what is now, then maybe you could open yourself to the nature of the reality. But first you should identify the barriers that are preventing you to do it, and if you prefer ignore them as they don't exist.... well, that's don't going to make them dissapear 

[James123]

58 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

There are Absolutes. The truth about reality is an Absolute.  It is Mind.  Period.  This is simply an Absolute that you have not become conscious of. 

So, absolute becomes alive with birth with the mind?

1 hour ago, Inliytened1 said:

Precisely.  Don't stray from logic. It can serve you in end.  Do you not think that the Absolute is not omniscient? If it is, then it must have thought of everything.  

Logic is suffering, let the moment effortlessly flows. Merge and flow with it.

Thinking is unnecessary, just the tons of weight, which is the weight of the universe. Attachment with a word brings entire duality on shoulder.

1 hour ago, kbone said:

However, when committing suicide, statistics show that three times more people will shoot themselves in the head (mind) than in the heart. Hmmm...

Because, suicide is quickiest way, running away, therefore still surves to survival. Being effortless is burning while alive. But, when the one turns into ashes, realize the moment, after that love, compassion, bliss never leaves, which are gift of the present moment, thats what heaven is, state of consciousness, after effortlessly accepting anything and everything.