Don't be Sad

[Sugarcoat]

1 hour ago, Inliytened1 said:

In both cases you have to shut off a part of the mind to stop the suffering.  You don't have to treat it directly.  That's why through deep meditation you can release both types of suffering.  Both physical and mental source from the ego.  What mindfulness meditation aims to do is to shut off that part of the ego completely.  If it's nullified there is no suffering.  But then what is there, just raw Being.  Think about this...on top of raw Being what we really are doing as egos is suffering.  Like you said - for everyone there is a certain degree.   But really it's all suffering.   There are moments of pleasure but that's why people turn to drugs and alcohol.  To stop the suffering.  If the degree is low enough you can get by.  But once it gets intense you have to find some mechanism.  

I might start exploring what my mind does when I suffer to see if there is a difference.  It seems resistance is deeply unconscious so it can be very hard identify and undo, it’s like we are working against our biology because we are wired to resist pain and mental suffering. Shutting the mind is hard . We can do it by focusing directly on a sense perception for example pain, or like breathing in meditation. Then you gotta return to it over and over when you get sucked back into mind.

[Breakingthewall]

5 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

I have experienced in my own experience that dissolving layers to the self gets rid of mental suffering. But physical suffering is another puzzle to solve. We have so many people nowadays with painful diseases how do we solve the problem of pain. Seems there’s no escaping it. Some say it’s the resistance to pain that causes the suffering but I’m having a hard time identifying that resistance, it’s a tough pill to swallow. 

The point is to be connected to what life is and accept what it brings. When I said dissolving suffering, I meant understanding the psychological structures you've created as a defense throughout your life that allow you to function but close you down in return. This is hereditary; we come from thousands of generations of war, class struggle, the fight for reproduction, exploitation, slavery, misery, disease, and hunger. Or, if you prefer, life. The game of life is absolutely wild, but now the tiger seems asleep, and we think it's a friendly kitten.. At any moment he can wake up and show his fangs

The only wise path is openness. Closing yourself off to protect yourself is stupid because it's impossible. Old age, illness, and death await us. Openness requires breaking through the psychological layers of protection and opening your being to its true essence. This isn't equivalent to erasing the self, but it does require erasing it, or rather, opening it up, making it transparent. The self is a much more complex structure than it seems; it's an interesting game to see through.

Regarding what you say about pain and chronic illness, well, I don't know what I would do. You have to be in that situation to decide. My intuition tells me that this game is active in multiple dimensions, that there are different energetic levels of existence, and that the work I do now is reflected at different levels. But ultimately, what exists is living reality. If you're open to it, life is beautiful, the energy powerful. When the pain comes, we'll see.

 

[theleelajoker]

2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

The point is to be connected to what life is and accept what it brings. When I said dissolving suffering, I meant understanding the psychological structures you've created as a defense throughout your life that allow you to function but close you down in return. This is hereditary; we come from thousands of generations of war, class struggle, the fight for reproduction, exploitation, slavery, misery, disease, and hunger. Or, if you prefer, life. The game of life is absolutely wild, but now the tiger seems asleep, and we think it's a friendly kitten.. At any moment he can wake up and show his fangs

The only wise path is openness. Closing yourself off to protect yourself is stupid because it's impossible. Old age, illness, and death await us. Openness requires breaking through the psychological layers of protection and opening your being to its true essence. This isn't equivalent to erasing the self, but it does require erasing it, or rather, opening it up, making it transparent. The self is a much more complex structure than it seems; it's an interesting game to see through.

Regarding what you say about pain and chronic illness, well, I don't know what I would do. You have to be in that situation to decide. My intuition tells me that this game is active in multiple dimensions, that there are different energetic levels of existence, and that the work I do now is reflected at different levels. But ultimately, what exists is living reality. If you're open to it, life is beautiful, the energy powerful. When the pain comes, we'll see.

 

You writing about slavery and exploitation reminds me: When I came Jamaica the first time some years ago, I noticed a difference in the eyes of many of the Jamaicans, men especially. There was an aggression, an anger, but als sadness that I haven't seen in the eyes of a typical European. At some point I read that majority of Jamaican has historical connection so slavery, and got the theory that this energy in their eyes is (also) the long term effect of this. 

I recently met a Brazilian who told me she feels like she's still feeling the slavery and repression of her country by the Portuguese in her body and psyche. 

Bottom line is this: Taking a bigger picture helps me to not see all my pain or suffering as purely personal, but also as a process that has roots in family, culture, history. Less "it's my fault, I create my own suffering" and more "ok this is simply happening, not my choice, not my doing, just got born into this"

I can see the analogy re tiger and kitten, but maybe the tiger doesn't need to wake up? Maybe we can evolve to make life less about survival, and more about being happy?

And re multiple dimensions: yes that's my intuition, too

Edited July 6 by theleelajoker

[gettoefl]

11 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

I have experienced in my own experience that dissolving layers to the self gets rid of mental suffering. But physical suffering is another puzzle to solve. We have so many people nowadays with painful diseases how do we solve the problem of pain. Seems there’s no escaping it. Some say it’s the resistance to pain that causes the suffering but I’m having a hard time identifying that resistance, it’s a tough pill to swallow. 

Quote

M-5.II.1. Healing must occur in exact proportion to which the valuelessness of sickness is recognized. 2 One need but say, "There is no gain at all to me in this" and he is healed. 3 But to say this, one first must recognize certain facts. 4 First, it is obvious that decisions are of the mind, not of the body. 5 If sickness is but a faulty problem-solving approach, it is a decision. 6 And if it is a decision, it is the mind and not the body that makes it. 7 The resistance to recognizing this is enormous, because the existence of the world as you perceive it depends on the body being the decision maker. 8 Terms like "instincts," "reflexes" and the like represent attempts to endow the body with non-mental motivators. 9 Actually, such terms merely state or describe the problem. 10 They do not answer it.

M-5.II.2. The acceptance of sickness as a decision of the mind, for a purpose for which it would use the body, is the basis of healing. 2 And this is so for healing in all forms. 3 A patient decides that this is so, and he recovers. 4 If he decides against recovery, he will not be healed. 5 Who is the physician? 6 Only the mind of the patient himself. 7 The outcome is what he decides that it is. 8 Special agents seem to be ministering to him, yet they but give form to his own choice. 9 He chooses them in order to bring tangible form to his desires. 10 And it is this they do, and nothing else. 11 They are not actually needed at all. 12 The patient could merely rise up without their aid and say, "I have no use for this." 13 There is no form of sickness that would not be cured at once.

M-5.II.3. What is the single requisite for this shift in perception? 2 It is simply this; the recognition that sickness is of the mind, and has nothing to do with the body. 3 What does this recognition "cost"? 4 It costs the whole world you see, for the world will never again appear to rule the mind. 5 For with this recognition is responsibility placed where it belongs; not with the world, but on him who looks on the world and sees it as it is not. 6 He looks on what he chooses to see. 7 No more and no less. 8 The world does nothing to him. 9 He only thought it did. 10 Nor does he do anything to the world, because he was mistaken about what it is. 11 Herein is the release from guilt and sickness both, for they are one. 12 Yet to accept this release, the insignificance of the body must be an acceptable idea.

M-5.II.4. With this idea is pain forever gone. 2 But with this idea goes also all confusion about creation. 3 Does not this follow of necessity? 4 Place cause and effect in their true sequence in one respect, and the learning will generalize and transform the world. 5 The transfer value of one true idea has no end or limit. 6 The final outcome of this lesson is the remembrance of God. 7 What do guilt and sickness, pain, disaster and all suffering mean now? 8 Having no purpose, they are gone. 9 And with them also go all the effects they seemed to cause. 10 Cause and effect but replicate creation. 11 Seen in their proper perspective, without distortion and without fear, they re-establish Heaven.

- ACIM

 

[PurpleTree]

4 hours ago, theleelajoker said:

 

I recently met a Brazilian who told me she feels like she's still feeling the slavery and repression of her country by the Portuguese in her body and psyche. 

 Just because someone says something doesn’t make it true. For example i have auto immune issues etc. and i’m white european. Now if i was in a country which had slavery i might think it was because of that.

Edited July 6 by PurpleTree

[Schizophonia]

12 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

Yea who knows what is true. I agree with him I’ve always since young age been very disturbed by all the suffering that exists. Recently I’ve been introduced to the idea about how resistance contributes to or even causes the suffering.

Yea i contemplated that too in different contexts

Quote

Shinzen young talks about it.

Didn't know him

Quote

It’s a tough pill to swallow but it would be cool if there exists legit ways to overcome suffering.

Yes opium ahah.

While waiting to be able to "transfer one's consciousness to a computer" and live millions and perhaps billions of years without suffering..

Quote

That’s everyone’s goal at the end of the day as humans in this form.

Being happy, satisfied or at leats feeling alive. 

 

Edited July 6 by Schizophonia

[theleelajoker]

26 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

 Just because someone says something doesn’t make it true. For example i have auto immune issues etc. and i’m white european. Now if i was in a country which had slavery i might think it was because of that.

Yes. Doesn't matter if it's true, as long it's useful, as long as it makes you feel better

[PurpleTree]

10 minutes ago, theleelajoker said:

Yes. Doesn't matter if it's true, as long it's useful, as long as it makes you feel better

I thought this website and leo was about truth. Now I’m disappointed 😞 

[theleelajoker]

11 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

I thought this website and leo was about truth. Now I’m disappointed 😞 

This website is what's it's you make it about, Leo does whatever he does. I do whatever I do. 

Is "truth" objective?

Think of the placebo effect,  one person believe it's medicine and other believes it's a sugar pill. One person heals, other one stays sick. 

What do you prefer?

Edited July 6 by theleelajoker

[PurpleTree]

7 minutes ago, theleelajoker said:

This website is what's it's you make it about, Leo does whatever he does. I do whatever I do. 

Is "truth" objective?

Think of the placebo effect,  one person believe it's medicine and other believes it's a sugar pill. One person heals, other one stays sick. 

What do you prefer?

I prefer the ultimate truth.

[theleelajoker]

7 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

I prefer the ultimate truth.

What's the ultimate truth in my example above?

[PurpleTree]

12 minutes ago, theleelajoker said:

What's the ultimate truth in my example above?

There’s no person.

[theleelajoker]

24 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

There’s no person.

"person", as far as I know, stems from "persona", which has associations along "mask" , "shining though",  "actor" , "character", "appearance".

Giving your profile pic, you probably now this. So as far as I am concerned, these terms are true. I am aware of my appearance, of my persona. Are you saying there is no appearance, no person? Isn't it true that there is something appearing in your field of awareness?

I breath,eat, sleep, live, love, cry, talk, etc etc. I look to my right, there is another appearance sitting next to me in the restaurant.  

And while my persona is  here, I rather live as happy and as best as I can, whenever I can. If you know magic tricks to make all appearances go away, let me know I'll watch you performing the trick

 

 

Edited July 6 by theleelajoker

[PurpleTree]

3 minutes ago, theleelajoker said:

"person", as far as I know, stems from "persona", which has associations along "mask" , "shining though",  "actor" , "character", "appearance"

Yea it’s funny i just heard about that yesterday. It comes from Latin and is related to the Greek prosopon. The word persona in particular. And behind the mask there is nothing. I probably heard about it before but forgot about it.

9 minutes ago, theleelajoker said:

And while my persona is  here, I rather live as happy and as best as I can, whenever I can. If you know magic tricks to make all appearances go away, let me know I'll watch you performing the trick

Yea no problem I’m working on it. Or better said not I am working on it. But the energies are energetically shifting energies around and energising energy.

[theleelajoker]

So, I was into truth above all most my life.

Ok, truth seems to be, we are these appearances and sth beyond these appearances. Truth seems to be, that there is oneness. And what now I'm asking myself?

Well, as of today my POV is: either my persona wants to be here, or there is no other choice than to be here. 

Whatever is the case, I rather take the sugar pill, believe it's medicine, feel good and embrace the experience as best as I can. 

Edited July 6 by theleelajoker

[PurpleTree]

Opium for the people. Ssris for the kids. Sugar pills for theleelajoker. Sad.

 

 

 

[theleelajoker]

1 hour ago, PurpleTree said:

Opium for the people. Ssris for the kids. Sugar pills for theleelajoker. Sad.

Sad for whom? Definitely not for me.

And why be sad when I'm happy?

[Sugarcoat]

On 2025-07-06 at 5:38 AM, Breakingthewall said:

The point is to be connected to what life is and accept what it brings. When I said dissolving suffering, I meant understanding the psychological structures you've created as a defense throughout your life that allow you to function but close you down in return. This is hereditary; we come from thousands of generations of war, class struggle, the fight for reproduction, exploitation, slavery, misery, disease, and hunger. Or, if you prefer, life. The game of life is absolutely wild, but now the tiger seems asleep, and we think it's a friendly kitten.. At any moment he can wake up and show his fangs

The only wise path is openness. Closing yourself off to protect yourself is stupid because it's impossible. Old age, illness, and death await us. Openness requires breaking through the psychological layers of protection and opening your being to its true essence. This isn't equivalent to erasing the self, but it does require erasing it, or rather, opening it up, making it transparent. The self is a much more complex structure than it seems; it's an interesting game to see through.

Regarding what you say about pain and chronic illness, well, I don't know what I would do. You have to be in that situation to decide. My intuition tells me that this game is active in multiple dimensions, that there are different energetic levels of existence, and that the work I do now is reflected at different levels. But ultimately, what exists is living reality. If you're open to it, life is beautiful, the energy powerful. When the pain comes, we'll see.

 

It seems the opening you talk about is a decrease in “resistance”, that one of our mechanisms that keep us closed is our tendency to resist

Edited July 8 by Sugarcoat

[Breakingthewall]

52 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

It seems the opening you talk about is a decrease in “resistance”, that one of our mechanisms that keep us closed is our tendency to resist

No it isn't. When I talk about openness, I mean leaving the time , cause effect perspective. Later you return to the usual linear perspective, and resistance exists, and it exists for a reason. Limited reality is real, and you pursue the good and avoid the bad. That's how it is, and that's it.

[Sugarcoat]

8 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

No it isn't. When I talk about openness, I mean leaving the time , cause effect perspective. Later you return to the usual linear perspective, and resistance exists, and it exists for a reason. Limited reality is real, and you pursue the good and avoid the bad. That's how it is, and that's it.

So you don’t believe in all this “stop resisting” talk to transcend suffering ?