Is the West more developed from an SD perspective?

[Kid A]

18 hours ago, Hojo said:

If its a model its a model of collective humans not individual. Saying this person is a certain stage or i am a certain stage is masterbating.

I definitely agree with this. Spiral Dynamics may be the most interesting discovery in my lifetime, and I find it really spot on, but nothing makes me cringe more than when I see people say that this or that person is a certain color. Every single instinct in me tells me that this is not the way to go.

Edited June 24 by Kid A

[hyruga]

Yes the west is more advanced from a SD perspective. More people read books and talks about integration. However, the gap between the rich and poor in western countries seem to be widening. And there are some who have fallen to the wayside.

In other countries, they are mostly stage orange (still developing and gunning for money and power) or stage red (fighting for power and survival). Only a few countries like Japan, Singapore and UAE are really well developed physically. China has developed quite well and India is also rising. When these countries are more developed, their people will then start to develop more holistically.

Edited July 3 by hyruga

[Carl-Richard]

I wouldn't worry much about that, as people who consider themselves very developed are mostly just Blue 😆

Edited July 13 by Carl-Richard

[ryoko]

Spiral Dynamics only apply to the West. Path taken by other regions are quite different. And unique. Take Russia for example, I love their sense of sovereignty, despite failed revolutions. West in my eyes, is perverted form of growth. And Spiral Dynamics is way too Simple to analyse anything. 

[ryoko]

Try seeing everything through the values you consider highest. And don't label values as one stage or the other. It's a trap. 

The reason Spiral Dynamics seems to apply everywhere is due to Westernisation. 

Globalization is definitely something to strive for, but it's not supposed to happen through Westernisation and Colonization of the mind. Humans have a tendency to underestimate the effort it takes to achieve true unity. The unity backed by a history of exploiting own people and others, is no unity at all. 

[Aaron p]

This is actually more of an interesting topic than a lot of people consider. From an economic standpoint and social evolution, it's pretty obvious that on the whole country's like the USA in the United Kingdom are generally more evolved. These countries are called MEDC's (more economically developed countries) if my memory serves. 

What's interesting though is being higher on the evolutionary scale on average produces a lot of strange and weird results that I find to be unexpected. For example, a significant amount of the population seem to be lulled into a sort of low grade, benign stagnation. Essentially my understanding is that this probably comes from a polarization of classes. In certain areas there's a lot of stupidity too... Where you might find that something is common knowledge in the likes of a poor country, where people tend to be slightly more street smart, people living in the United Kingdom are sort of in a protected bubble of McDonald's, Amazon deliveries and supermarkets. 

I know for a fact that this likely comes because; prosperity breeds complacency. 

So it's not a simple upward movement of a country just because it is economically developed. Some of the stupidest people in the world live in the most developed countries. And so while Western countries do tend to be more economically developed, this stage in the evolutionary process is typically seen to induce all kinds of malnourished, deformed and f***** up people and situations. Without doubt it's a temporary thing until such a time as Western countries learn how to maneuver masterfully in the new world of smartphones and microwaves. I see that the self improvement industry (especially with teachers high quality as Leo) meaning of instrumental importance in this process. But it'll probably take many years. 

You could research the study done by sepian labs on the state of the mental health of each country and the rank. The United Kingdom for example is the second most mentally ill country in existence. The USA is about middle. There is so much work to do it's unbelievable. Ultimately we just have to keep making the correct moves and trusted the energy of God will keep correcting itself, which it will. But in terms of personal lives and living in one of these Western countries, do not make the mistake of assuming the people are happy here. It is my full intention to move away from the United Kingdom. It sucks major ass. 

Edited yesterday at 09:33 PM by Aaron p

[Basman]

20 hours ago, Aaron p said:

This is actually more of an interesting topic than a lot of people consider. From an economic standpoint and social evolution, it's pretty obvious that on the whole country's like the USA in the United Kingdom are generally more evolved. These countries are called MEDC's (more economically developed countries) if my memory serves. 

What's interesting though is being higher on the evolutionary scale on average produces a lot of strange and weird results that I find to be unexpected. For example, a significant amount of the population seem to be lulled into a sort of low grade, benign stagnation. Essentially my understanding is that this probably comes from a polarization of classes. In certain areas there's a lot of stupidity too... Where you might find that something is common knowledge in the likes of a poor country, where people tend to be slightly more street smart, people living in the United Kingdom are sort of in a protected bubble of McDonald's, Amazon deliveries and supermarkets. 

I know for a fact that this likely comes because; prosperity breeds complacency. 

So it's not a simple upward movement of a country just because it is economically developed. Some of the stupidest people in the world live in the most developed countries. And so while Western countries do tend to be more economically developed, this stage in the evolutionary process is typically seen to induce all kinds of malnourished, deformed and f***** up people and situations. Without doubt it's a temporary thing until such a time as Western countries learn how to maneuver masterfully in the new world of smartphones and microwaves. I see that the self improvement industry (especially with teachers high quality as Leo) meaning of instrumental importance in this process. But it'll probably take many years. 

You could research the study done by sepian labs on the state of the mental health of each country and the rank. The United Kingdom for example is the second most mentally ill country in existence. The USA is about middle. There is so much work to do it's unbelievable. Ultimately we just have to keep making the correct moves and trusted the energy of God will keep correcting itself, which it will. But in terms of personal lives and living in one of these Western countries, do not make the mistake of assuming the people are happy here. It is my full intention to move away from the United Kingdom. It sucks major ass. 

Developed countries are much more isolated from the harshness of reality because they have handled base survival so effectively, relatively speaking. So people can get away more with immaturity and magical thinking. 

Mental health is luxury which developed countries can afford to care about which is why you see them better record it (in addition to having more better infrastructure and bureaucracy enabling such). Life is so much harder elsewhere that mental health isn't even considered. You have a lot less options to attain happiness in developing nations. Most people are just scraping by.

I think Western nations being largely stage orange suffer from cultural hollowing and broadening inequality which leads to a lot of unhappiness, as humans need community, purpose and to be politically and economically included. This isn't a mistake but a sign that the current stage of development is nearing exhaustion. 

[Basman]

A kinda good check to see if a country is more developed is to ask yourself if you would rather live in one country over another.

For example, Somalians would rather live in Sweden than Somalia. 

[Jannes]

1 hour ago, Basman said:

A kinda good check to see if a country is more developed is to ask yourself if you would rather live in one country over another.

For example, Somalians would rather live in Sweden than Somalia. 

But when the difference isnt that black and white, bias can easily overshine. 

[Basman]

8 minutes ago, Jannes said:

But when the difference isnt that black and white, bias can easily overshine. 

It's kind of obvious that the west is more developed broadly. There are more countries like Somalia than there are countries like Sweden. But they all want the fruits of Swedish development like money and stability (except maybe the gay stuff).

It's not about putting the West on a pedestal, but about having an accurate view of the world situation. If you are born in a developed nation you are you so extremely lucky. Besides just a general quality of life, you have so much opportunity to change you situation compared to developing country. So much more freedom to align your life with your values. Your more free from being stuck in raw survival mode. 

A tier 1 bias would be to reject stage orange as a whole.

[Jannes]

10 minutes ago, Basman said:

It's kind of obvious that the west is more developed broadly. There are more countries like Somalia than there are countries like Sweden. But they all want the fruits of Swedish development like money and stability (except maybe the gay stuff).

It's not about putting the West on a pedestal, but about having an accurate view of the world situation. If you are born in a developed nation you are you so extremely lucky. Besides just a general quality of life, you have so much opportunity to change you situation compared to developing country. So much more freedom to align your life with your values. Your more free from being stuck in raw survival mode. 

A tier 1 bias would be to reject stage orange as a whole.

Yeah I agree. Even a Somalian with Somalian bias will likely be happier in a developed country if he spent some time there, because the living standard is just so much drastically better.  

But when we compare the US and china, who are not that drastically far apart in terms of living standards, your bias of your culture and ignorance of other cultures can easily overshine objective criteria. Many americans are ignorant to chinas living standards, are quite nationalists and value (the feeling of) free speech because of their upbringing. Chinese have their own prejudices about america, their own nationality and so on..

So thats all I wanted to point out, its hard to find a person without bias who can objectively say where they would rather want to live which would determine which country is better.