Do humans possess a higher status than animals

[AION]

SD green argument is basically that we are just one of the species of many species that exist on earth and that we don’t possess a special status. 

While SD blue says we as humans and especially man is created in image of god and we are the pinnacle of evolution/nature and we should take our righteous place in the universe. 

IMO the whole vegan argument is based on SD green and it is deeply flawed. They do make some good points about integrity and ecosystems but they totally inflate it and shoot their own health in the foot. If humans disappeared today the existence wouldn’t be better off.

Personally I agree more with the SD yellow argument. Humans shouldn’t be ashamed for being meat eaters until real organic 3D meat is invented. We should respect all animals but shouldn’t make the wrong judgement that we are just one of the animals on earth. We are the pinnacle of evolution and that gives a lot of power but with power there is responsibility and accountability otherwise disaster awaits us. 

Edited June 22 by AION

[Daniel Balan]

I totally agree with the stage green reasoning on this matter! A human life is no more important than that of a snail or an ant! We are the most advanced species, but not the most smart, we are the best exploiters of our environment, but who is to say that an anthill isn't more impressive than a sky scrapper? Or a wasp nest? To me humans are just smart hairless apes, thats all, we used our intelligence to build great stuff, but so did all the other species, so we aren't more important in the eyes of nature than other species! I personally think that dinosaurs were far more superior than humans. The human needs to realize that he is not the center of the universe, nor his life has any special value to the universe, and the very fact that a human is alive, is pure luck. Gravity, predators, snakes, rocks falling from the sky etc, could have killed man had he not been so lucky all his life! There is no divine entity that protects man, man is as animal just as any other mammal on this planet. There is nothing special or extraordinary about this species, except for its delusional belief that it is the greatest in the universe.

Edited June 22 by Daniel Balan

[Lyubov]

No, that is a projection of your mind. There is no divine or absolute status placed on reality. Humans evolved in a way which gives them stronger survival abilities in comparison to other animals and different faculties as well, but there is no truth in you being better than anyone or anyone being better than you. Relatively there are differences of course though but nothing makes one life better than another. Of course as humans we have our bias to favor our species.

Edited June 22 by Lyubov

[carterfelder]

Humans are animals, too. Why should a human animal have more moral value than a nonhuman animal in situations that don't involve any significant conflict? Watch this video, it's called "Theory of Animal Rights" by professor Gary Francione who is a vegan abolitionist.

Edited June 22 by carterfelder

[AION]

@Daniel Balan @Lyubov @carterfelder If humans are not the center and humans are destroying the earth, and you really believe these 2 statements, then to be righteous and an integrity, you should jump from your balcony or in front of a car or something.  And if you don’t do this, you implicitly don’t agree with the 2 initial statements. Because you wanting to stay alive goes against the greater good of the planet since humans are now destroying the earth at rapid speed.

I mean, there is nothing wrong to wanting to be alive. But to stay alive, it goes against other things to stay alive. Every species want to be at the top of the food chain. We shouldn’t be ashamed to be alive and wanting to survive  

Humans have god. Animals don’t have god. That is the main difference. To be human, comes with certain responsibilities and accountability. 

Edited June 22 by AION

[carterfelder]

You're misrepresenting the view that all animals are morally equal by using extreme, black-and-white thinking. Most proponents of moral equality advocate for reducing harm and respecting all life, not self-destruction.

"Every species wants to be at the top of the food chain."

There’s no biological or behavioral evidence that every species has a drive to be an apex predator. Evolutionary pressures favor survival and reproduction, not a universal quest for food chain dominance.

The claim that "humans have God but animals don't" implies animals lack a quality (e.g., soul, spiritual capacity) that enables a connection to God. However, research on animal cognition shows many species exhibit complex behaviors, emotions, and social structures (e.g., elephants mourning, dolphins cooperating). If "having God" relates to consciousness or moral capacity, this statement dismisses these traits in animals without evidence.

 

Edited June 22 by carterfelder

[Daniel Balan]

2 hours ago, AION said:

@Daniel Balan @Lyubov @carterfelder If humans are not the center and humans are destroying the earth, and you really believe these 2 statements, then to be righteous and an integrity, you should jump from your balcony or in front of a car or something.  And if you don’t do this, you implicitly don’t agree with the 2 initial statements. Because you wanting to stay alive goes against the greater good of the planet since humans are now destroying the earth at rapid speed.

I mean, there is nothing wrong to wanting to be alive. But to stay alive, it goes against other things to stay alive. Every species want to be at the top of the food chain. We shouldn’t be ashamed to be alive and wanting to survive  

Humans have god. Animals don’t have god. That is the main difference. To be human, comes with certain responsibilities and accountability. 

Humans have god and other animals don't!? 😂😂😂😂😂 bro this forum makes me laugh so much everyday! I would go as far as to say that only you have god, the rest of the universe and the rest of the earth have crocodile shit😂😂 Only you have discovered god 😂😂😂 I will leave this forum one day. The amount of bullshit is sometimes off the charts.

[LordFall]

I'm not sure that's a good question. There are cockroaches in my apartment and I try not to kill them as we share the same space and if anything they were there before me. Unless they do crazy stuff and crawl on me in my sleep and really encroach on my quality of life they usually aren't a bother. 

I was a vegan and quit it due to it be really inconvenient but when I got more mental bandwith and time to research how to gain muscle while only eating plant protein. 

I think stage green perspective of minimizing harm is beautiful but the stage yellow/stage turquoise perspective is kinda like well life is brutal and it is what it is. Ultimately God created a physical dualistic realm out of death and destruction. 

[integral]

I eat meat because its how this body was designed by evolution, it is not in my control and if don't eat meat I get very sick.

There's nothing specials about humans, we have bigger brains, that's about it.

Edited June 22 by integral

[AION]

12 minutes ago, Daniel Balan said:

Humans have god and other animals don't!? 😂😂😂😂😂 bro this forum makes me laugh so much everyday! I would go as far as to say that only you have god, the rest of the universe and the rest of the earth have crocodile shit😂😂 Only you have discovered god 😂😂😂 I will leave this forum one day. The amount of bullshit is sometimes off the charts.

You are dreaming it all up bro. 😅

 

6 minutes ago, LordFall said:

I'm not sure that's a good question. There are cockroaches in my apartment and I try not to kill them as we share the same space and if anything they were there before me. Unless they do crazy stuff and crawl on me in my sleep and really encroach on my quality of life they usually aren't a bother. 

I was a vegan and quit it due to it be really inconvenient but when I got more mental bandwith and time to research how to gain muscle while only eating plant protein. 

I think stage green perspective of minimizing harm is beautiful but the stage yellow/stage turquoise perspective is kinda like well life is brutal and it is what it is. Ultimately God created a physical dualistic realm out of death and destruction. 

Those roaches were your protein 😭

[sholomar]

I would argue no... I always find it fascinating how people like this are allowed to get away with what they do with just a slap on the wrist, but hey cops just enforce laws, and there are no laws on the books giving more severe punishments to individuals like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhzTKx-vHzc

However I fully understand and support humans given higher priority status by the law, because people shouldn't just go around killing one another. We have egos and a higher level of conscious awareness of ourselves and our enviornment.

That said we tend to give higher priority to certain animals based on our emotions... dogs and cats are seen as more worth protecting than say wild animals because of our genetic link to them via domestication, and I won't bring up pest animals or insects like mosquitoes or invasive species like the asian carp or feral swine.  Bottom line, natural selection is survival of the fittest... nature is harsh and cruel if you really analyze evolution.   I still enjoy my meat, because we evolved to eat and enjoy it and take nourishment from the proteins, just like other animal species.

 

 

Edited June 22 by sholomar

[integral]

A SD green crocodile agrees in equality and agrees we should reduce total harm, but it also accepts what is not in its control, biology of a carnivore.

The solution is like you said to manufacture meat with out animals or to perfectly engineer an alternative food source with 100% the correct nutrients with 0 downsides.

I'm sure its possible we just need AI to solve it.

[AION]

Hierarchy is important. Because when you truly believe that you are an animal, then you should surrender your human rights and then what would happen. Vegans aren’t serious about their shit. 

[Scholar]

4 hours ago, AION said:

@Daniel Balan @Lyubov @carterfelder If humans are not the center and humans are destroying the earth, and you really believe these 2 statements, then to be righteous and an integrity, you should jump from your balcony or in front of a car or something.  And if you don’t do this, you implicitly don’t agree with the 2 initial statements. Because you wanting to stay alive goes against the greater good of the planet since humans are now destroying the earth at rapid speed.

I mean, there is nothing wrong to wanting to be alive. But to stay alive, it goes against other things to stay alive. Every species want to be at the top of the food chain. We shouldn’t be ashamed to be alive and wanting to survive  

Humans have god. Animals don’t have god. That is the main difference. To be human, comes with certain responsibilities and accountability. 

This logic can justify anything, including slavery. If you want to be moral you should commit suicide so how can you blame someone for engaging in slavery?

 

What you are displaying here is human supremacy thinking. It's laughable to anyone who is not as biased as you are.

[Princess Arabia]

1 hour ago, Daniel Balan said:

Humans have god. Animals don’t have god.

Perfect example  of no one in these bodies. It's just air talking, 🤣

[LordFall]

1 hour ago, AION said:

Hierarchy is important. Because when you truly believe that you are an animal, then you should surrender your human rights and then what would happen. Vegans aren’t serious about their shit. 

That's not at all the points of vegans and literally the exact opposite. They are not saying that we should go back to animal rights and violence makes right(i.e. stage red) but that every being on this planet should have the right to dignity and lack of needless suffering. 

[carterfelder]

Dignity can't include ownership, use and killing of another sentient being.

[sholomar]

7 hours ago, carterfelder said:

Dignity can't include ownership, use and killing of another sentient being.

That is a moral judgment. Humans are experts at imposing morality onto situations that when analyzed from a purely logical perspective would be amoral, such as natural selection, one animal species eating another, pathogenic bacteria killing their hosts when they invade it, and all the little quarks that come with natural evolution. Our limbic animal brains are good at this. I'm not saying don't have a moral code, but analyzing it from a mindful perspective and pondering where it actually comes from can be a handy practice.   What is "dignity" in the guise of natural selection and passing on the best genes? I'd say it actually counts for a lot just doing some pondering.

One should ask oneself as example if these cattle we domesticate for our consumption would be better off in the wild unprotected as an example, exposed to predators and the elements. Perhaps they'd be better off not even being born, which they wouldn't if we weren't breeding them, but then we're not going to have meat to eat for 8 billion people. Should those zebras and gazelles that are meals for lions not be born because it's a cruel way to exist, possibly being food for some other species?   I would make the argument that life on this planet or any plant in this physical universe entails lots of suffering just because of the rules of the game here. Should all life in the universe simply not exist because existence can be cruel? 

Edited June 23 by sholomar

[AION]

8 hours ago, LordFall said:

That's not at all the points of vegans and literally the exact opposite. They are not saying that we should go back to animal rights and violence makes right(i.e. stage red) but that every being on this planet should have the right to dignity and lack of needless suffering. 

You can’t give human rights to animals because they wouldn’t know how to exercise them lmao.  This is an insane conversation. I expected more intelligent replies on this thread. 

[carterfelder]

No one argues that nonhuman animals should have the same rights as human animals. Animal rights is about "negative" rights, or the right not to be owned, used and killed. Animal rights is about the abolition of the domestication of animals altogether. It's about no longer bringing them into a life where they rely upon humans for nearly everything (because they do). Animal "welfare" is about making animal exploitation more efficient, and making people feel less guilty for harming animals by purchasing and consuming animal products.