Israel launches attack on Iran

[PurpleTree]

1 minute ago, Raze said:

 

Also conflicting reports on if the US is planning to intervene or not.

I guess they just go with the flow.

[Raze]

1 hour ago, hundreth said:

Congratulations.

Don’t worry, they have shelters, no one is blocking their food creating malnourishment, or medicine forcing amputations without anesthesia, they aren’t being shot while trying to get aid, they aren’t destroying 90% of residences and blocking emergency services from rescuing people stuck in the rubble forcing them to suffocate over days on dust. That only happened to the tens of thousands of Gazan children.

Edited June 16 by Raze

[hundreth]

Just now, Raze said:

Don’t worry, they have shelters, no one is blocking their food or medicine, they aren’t being shot while trying to get aid, they aren’t destroying 90% of residences and blocking emergency services from rescuing children stuck in the rubble forcing them to suffocate over days on dust. That only happened to the tens of thousands of Gazan children.

Because Israel doesn't let them.

It's just odd to see these celebratory posts of civilian death and infrastructure here. It exists in Israeli society, but no Israelis or pro Israelis are here celebrating the destruction of Gazan civilians or Iranian civilians / infrastructure. Military targets, sure.

[Raze]

5 minutes ago, hundreth said:

Because Israel doesn't let them.

It's just odd to see these celebratory posts of civilian death and infrastructure here. It exists in Israeli society, but no Israelis or pro Israelis are here celebrating the destruction of Gazan civilians or Iranian civilians / infrastructure. Military targets, sure.

Maybe I missed it, but I’m not seeing celebrating of it in this thread. And I can point to plenty of examples from 2023 early 2024 on here that were celebratory or borderline celebratory from the pro Israel side.

Israeli media also reported 90% of missiles are fired at military targets. If that ratios not good enough for you, wait until you find out what israel did. 

It’s convenient to say you just support a operation because it’s hitting military targets, when supporting the operation means everything else it is doing, including the civilians it hits. If I said I support oct 7 but just because it got military targets, would that be acceptable to you? Actually I don’t know why I bother anymore. Your side will never get it. 

Edited June 16 by Raze

[hundreth]

1 minute ago, Raze said:

Maybe I missed it, but I’m not seeing celebrating of it in this thread. And I can point to plenty of examples from 2023 early 2024 on here that were celebratory or borderline celebratory from the pro Israel side.

Israeli media also reported 90% of missiles are fired at military targets. If that ratios not good enough for you, wait until you find out what israel did. 

It’s convenient to say you just support a operation because it’s hitting military targets, when supporting the operation means everything else it is doing, including the civilians it hits. If I said I support oct 7 but just because it got military targets, would that be acceptable to you? Actually I don’t know why I bother anymore. Your side will never get it. 

When you're posting the damage to Israeli civilians / infra exclusively without also highlighting Iran's damage, it definitely comes across as selective and celebratory rather than news coverage. 

You once again missed the point, you are the one who doesn't get it. Both Israel and Iran are overwhelmingly going after military targets, yet there are civilian casualties. That is the very unfortunate cost of war. We are never happy to see that happen no matter who is on the receiving end. 

Oct 7 was an operation with the intent to cause as much widespread damage as possible, civilian or not. Why is it so hard for you to understand the difference? I don't know why I bother with you actually.

[Raze]

4 minutes ago, hundreth said:

When you're posting the damage to Israeli civilians / infra exclusively without also highlighting Iran's damage, it definitely comes across as selective and celebratory rather than news coverage. 

You once again missed the point, you are the one who doesn't get it. Both Israel and Iran are overwhelmingly going after military targets, yet there are civilian casualties. That is the very unfortunate cost of war. We are never happy to see that happen no matter who is on the receiving end. 

Oct 7 was an operation with the intent to cause as much widespread damage as possible, civilian or not. Why is it so hard for you to understand the difference? I don't know why I bother with you actually.

You were absolutely celebratory regarding attacks that killed civilians. During the pager attack you were gloating about testicles exploding and when I posted a 8 year old girl who was killed you replied dismissively to me.

Because the difference is on every relevant level Israel’s Gaza campaign was worse. They have literally destroyed 90% of buildings and openly say the goal is to make it unlivable and force the population to leave. Destroying water desalination plants, blocking food and medicine, razing farm land, have no military purpose, the purpose is destruction of civilian life. Yet the entire time that was happening, no matter how many tens of thousands of civilians were killed, you didn’t want a ceasefire, effectively you’re just fine with it.

[hundreth]

1 minute ago, Raze said:

You were absolutely celebratory regarding attacks that killed civilians. During the pager attack you were gloating about testicles exploding and when I posted a 8 year old girl who was killed you replied dismissively to me.

Because the difference is on every relevant level Israel’s Gaza campaign was worse. They have literally destroyed 90% of buildings and openly say the goal is to make it unlivable and force the population to leave. Destroying water desalination plants, blocking food and medicine, razing farm land, have no military purpose, the purpose is destruction of civilian life. Yet the entire time that was happening, no matter how many tens of thousands of civilians were killed, you didn’t want a ceasefire, effectively you’re just fine with it.

I'm pretty sure I pointed out that the intention behind the pager attack was to target Hezbollah militants. I certainly wasn't happy that an 8 year old was killed. I definitely wouldn't be the one to post that here as if it's an achievement.

No one here from the Israeli side is posting here highlighting each time a Gazan or Gazan building is destroyed. That is the pro Palestinian side. For good reason. When we see that, we are ashamed by it, not pleased. 

Where did you gather that I don't want a ceasefire? Are you responding to me personally or just generally to anyone pro Israel? I'm pretty sure most of my posts have been geared towards two state solution and peaceful negotiations. Which whether you believe they are realistic or not, is my north star.

[Keryo Koffa]

Edited June 16 by Keryo Koffa

[Raze]

18 minutes ago, hundreth said:

 

Where did you gather that I don't want a ceasefire? Are you responding to me personally or just generally to anyone pro Israel? I'm pretty sure most of my posts have been geared towards two state solution and peaceful negotiations. Which whether you believe they are realistic or not, is my north star.

You repeatedly argued with me there shouldn’t be a ceasefire until Hamas is “destroyed”.

Of course that ended up meaning the destruction of the entire Gazan people. Convenient…

[hundreth]

2 minutes ago, Raze said:

You repeatedly argued with me there shouldn’t be a ceasefire until Hamas is “destroyed”.

Of course that ended up meaning the destruction of the entire Gazan people. Convenient…

Great you found a post from 2 months after the attack where I believed the objective was to destroy Hamas. I even outlined what I thought could happen, take out Hamas leadership and install an international peacekeeping force in the area.

At no point was I in favor of a forever war that leads to the destruction of all Gazans. Nor was I ever pleased to see it unfold.

[Breakingthewall]

The question is to what extent Israel can reduce Iran's nuclear capability. There are facilities hidden in many places and they are heavily armored, so does this war serve any purpose from Israel's perspective of nullifying Iran's nuclear capability?

[hundreth]

1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

The question is to what extent Israel can reduce Iran's nuclear capability. There are facilities hidden in many places and they are heavily armored, so does this war serve any purpose from Israel's perspective of nullifying Iran's nuclear capability?

Unclear. There are opposing reports outlining the damage Israel did to their nuclear capabilities. We don't know how close they actually were, what impact Israel's attack made, what impact taking out the scientists has had, etc.

I personally think Israel is going for full on regime change and that is what they hope the U.S. involvement will lead to. You can't really stop the Ayatolla from going after nukes but possibly installing a new regime could. 

Tbh I think in every scenario it is a huge gamble and we don't know how it will play out.

[Breakingthewall]

3 minutes ago, hundreth said:

personally think Israel is going for full on regime change and that is what they hope the U.S. involvement will lead to. You can't really stop the Ayatolla from going after nukes but possibly installing a new regime could.

Very difficult, They can't invade, and neither can the US. Bombing the civilian population would turn the world against Israel and unite Iran against the enemy. Perhaps it's possible to destroy a large part of the atomic facilities and delay the possibility of a bomb for years.

[hundreth]

4 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Very difficult, They can't invade, and neither can the US. Bombing the civilian population would turn the world against Israel and unite Iran against the enemy. Perhaps it's possible to destroy a large part of the atomic facilities and delay the possibility of a bomb for years.

Difficult and unlikely for sure. Bombing civilians isn't the idea, creating conditions for revolutionaries is. 

It's also possible that they are pushing Iran to a very aggressive nuclear deal with the U.S. though this also seems far fetched. I really don't know what the long term thinking is.

[PurpleTree]

2 minutes ago, hundreth said:

Difficult and unlikely for sure. Bombing civilians isn't the idea, creating conditions for revolutionaries is. 

It's also possible that they are pushing Iran to a very aggressive nuclear deal with the U.S. though this also seems far fetched. I really don't know what the long term thinking is.

Probably Bibi doesn’t want to go to jail. That’s his long term thinking.

[GroovyGuru]

I’m honestly not too sure what Israel hopes to achieve here either. Obviously their true goal is regime change but that seems unattainable, even if US ground forces were sent in, which likely won’t happen (although you never truly know, all it can take is one domestic “terrorist attack” to change public opinion). 
 

Someone in here mentioned Iran trying to seek a ceasefire now. I could be wrong but I can’t calculate how this is possible given the circumstances. It seems the regime is fighting for its survival. Their options are either fight until the end, or be deposed and banished. The way I see it, a ceasefire request will have to come from Israel whose citizens surely won’t be able to handle continuous bombardment from Iran for too much longer. 
 

I can’t see any possibility of Iran returning to the negotiating table and discussing the nuclear stuff. This whole debacle just made it painfully obvious to them why they need to acquire the weapons. Even if all parties involved somehow find an off-ramp on this escalation ladder, this will only be a temporary delay in another inevitable confrontation in the future. That is, if Iran doesn’t build the nukes that they need. The question now is whether Iran’s ballistic missiles outlast Israel’s ability to shoot the majority of them down. If that is the case, I think Iran will be able to stomach and absorb the punishment longer than Israeli society can. 

[PurpleTree]

Wasn’t this guy MAGA-ish too?

And now he says Trump betrayed Maga and so on.

Is that how the cookie crumbles?

 

[Raze]

[Keryo Koffa]

@Raze This is where "We do not negotiate with terrorists" would come in handy. 

[PurpleTree]

Quite good report (so far) that shows destruction on both sides