LA Protests

[oldhandle]

Maybe Apparition of Jack went too hard on Leo but those defending Leo in general, and Leo himself, still haven't responded to why Leo has such incredibly vitriolic things to say about the USA and at the same time admonishes the concept of someone with enough money to do so just leaving the USA - seems like just kinda like nonsensical to hold both those views simultaneously unless he were some sort of ~American Patriot~ that believes in dying for the flag and I don't see that from him so it's confusing.

[carterfelder]

On 6/8/2025 at 7:46 PM, Schahin said:

Dude the United States was basically built by violent illegal immigrants that were your ancestors.

You stole the land and killed the natives and made them alcoholics, but the immigrants from today are the actual problem. Allright

Could you clarify what you mean by "violent illegal immigrants" and "stole the land," and how these terms apply to the historical context of colonization, considering the complexities of that era?

Could you elaborate on what point you were emphasizing by contrasting historical colonial actions with contemporary immigration issues?

Edited Tuesday at 06:00 PM by carterfelder

[yetineti]

America is the best country, with the most complex problems. Plain and simple.

One can criticize the U.S. while maintaining there are no better options.

It might seem ungrateful, but it’s really just system maintenance.

Edited Tuesday at 06:24 PM by yetineti

[Joshe]

Marines deployed to LA. I haven't been following this story closely but this doesn't look good. If the protestors step out of line, and it seems they will, things could get very bad and lead to some very serious problems. This seems potentially the most pivotal moment of Trump's reign thus far.

 

Edited Tuesday at 06:09 PM by Joshe

[yetineti]

30 minutes ago, oldhandle said:

—still haven't responded to why Leo has such incredibly vitriolic things to say about the USA and at the same time admonishes the concept of someone with enough money to do so just leaving the USA - seems like just kinda like nonsensical to hold both those views simultaneously unless he were some sort of ~American Patriot~ that believes in dying for the flag and I don't see that from him so it's confusing.

Nobody has to be a ‘Patriot.’

It’s obvious America is the best country in the world overall.

There isn’t even a close 2nd, unless you single out particular issues and isolate them.

—America still continues to develop. It still makes mistakes.

It actually has a greater capacity for mistakes due to its overwhelming power and greatness.

—

Hegemonic Responsibility.

 

 

 

 

Edited Tuesday at 06:19 PM by yetineti

[PurpleTree]

6 minutes ago, yetineti said:

Nobody has to be a ‘Patriot.’

It’s obvious America is the best country in the world overall.

There isn’t even a close 2nd, unless you single out particular issues and isolate them.

—America still continues to develop. It still makes mistakes.

It actually has a greater capacity for mistakes due to its overwhelming power and greatness.

—

Hegemonic Responsibility.

 

 

 

 

Greatest in which terms? Quality of life?

[oldhandle]

21 minutes ago, yetineti said:

Nobody has to be a ‘Patriot.’

It’s obvious America is the best country in the world overall.

There isn’t even a close 2nd, unless you single out particular issues and isolate them.

—America still continues to develop. It still makes mistakes.

It actually has a greater capacity for mistakes due to its overwhelming power and greatness.

—

Hegemonic Responsibility.

 

 

 

 

LOL AHAHAHAHA 

Dude this has to be a joke. How can anyone think America is the best country on Earth in 2025?

[Jodistrict]

Mexican restaurant workers helping a cop that was pepper sprayed.

I lived in Mexico for 10 years and this is what they are like.

https://packaged-media.redd.it/cea9uxk5b06f1/pb/m2-res_590p.mp4?m=DASHPlaylist.mpd&v=1&e=1749592800&s=1f6cd1577fae5af5d25563feb479b1d3244e59b0

[yetineti]

33 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Greatest in which terms? Quality of life?

@PurpleTree

Greatest overall.

[yetineti]

23 minutes ago, oldhandle said:

LOL AHAHAHAHA 

Dude this has to be a joke. How can anyone think America is the best country on Earth in 2025?

@oldhandle

Name a better country, overall.

[PurpleTree]

41 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Greatest in which terms? Quality of life?

I mean in terms of Military for sure. Then tech absolutely. Quality of life questionable. Public transport nope. Business? Maybe. School shootings yikes.  Democracy ? Nope. Freedom of speech probably. Medicare no.
 

Overall maybe slightly or not.

In how many countries have you lived?

Edited Tuesday at 07:03 PM by PurpleTree

[Jayson G]

11 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

There's been a lot of ethics and values. Millions of illegals have been given no punishments and rewards for decades.

You can cross the border and be given water, food, blankets, shelter, courtroom.

@Leo Gura This being an example, and other examples I have .. to suggest that trump may not be "THAT" bad? 

Of course I am not supporting his authoritarian agenda, etc. but every now and then I come across some very important changes his administration is making. 

I can't tell if this is me being delusional and being caught in my own agenda, or if he is actually making important changes. 

For ex. deporting illegals, from one perspective I can see as a good thing. So thats sort of 1 good point for him, although its been a bit harsh and inefficient, but generally been fine? Then also I see that his admin is limiting chips to China, which helps US advance in AI, and also some of the de-regulation helps US AI companies advance further than china, which is also good in the case that we don't want an authoritarian regime being far above and leading the world in AI, which would be bad for war, as such a thriving economy and power in china would also trickle into war and military of theirs in many ways. Which is another important 1 more point for Trumps administration? 

Now I can see this de-regulation thing potentially being a bad thing in terms of just letting companies do whatever they want, further building bigger pockets of AI companies (and possibly trump richer) .. and he likely didnt do this de-regulation because he's protecting national interest (or is he?) .. 

But I guess overall I'm wondering if my views on Trump being 100% bad is completely accurate? Many things have made me furious in the past like what he's doing with Medicaid, and to the elderly, etc. though. 

[Leo Gura]

10 minutes ago, Jayson G said:

to suggest that trump may not be "THAT" bad? 

He is bad, but not as bad as leftists fear. At least not yet. Who knows how low he will stoop in the end. The potential for serious danger is there. But leftists do overblow it most of the time.

Striking the right balance on Trump is admittedly very challenging. It's unclear how bad things will get. I can see things getting real bad, or just mildly bad.

It's important to remain clear-eyed and accurate, without exaggerating anything.

Edited Tuesday at 07:16 PM by Leo Gura

[yetineti]

@PurpleTree

U.S. military and tech alone have created more global prosperity than any other system or government ever.

Every other country anyone here thinks is ‘better’ was built on the back of U.S. tech and military support.

I’m not saying the U.S. doesn’t have unique risks— but at some point an overall judgment has to be made.

 

 

 

[Boethius]

I found this a helpful perspective in making sense of the LA protests:

Zen priest, Peter Coyote, on protest: "I’m watching the Los Angeles reaction to ICE raids with trepidation and regret.

Three years ago I taught a class at Harvard on the “theater of protest”— designed to help people understand why so many protests turn out to be Republican campaign videos working directly against the interests of the original protest.

A protest is an invitation to a better world.

It’s a ceremony.

No one accepts a ceremonial invitation when they’re being screamed at.

More important you have to know who the real audience of the protest is.

The audience is NEVER the police, the politicians, the Board of supervisors, Congress,etc.

The audience is always the American people, who are trying to decide who they can trust; who will not embarrass them.

If you win them, you win power at the box office and power to make positive change.

Everything else is a waste.

There are a few ways to get there:

1. Let women organize the event. They’re more collaborative. They’re more inclusive, and they don’t generally bring the undertones of violence men do.

2 Appoint monitors, give them yellow, vests and whistles. At the first sign of violence, they blow the whistles and the real protester sit down.

Let the police take out their aggression on the anarchists and the provocateurs trying to discredit the movement.

3. Dress like you’re going to church. It’s hard to be painted as a hoodlum when you’re dressed in clean, presentable clothes.

They don’t have to be fancy they just signal the respect for the occasion that you want to transmit to the audience.

4. Make your protest silent. Demonstrate your discipline to the American people. Let signs do the talking.

5. Go home at night. In the dark, you can’t tell the cops from the killers. Come back at dawn fresh and rested.

I have great fear that Trump’s staging with the National Guard and maybe the Marines is designed to clash with anarchists who are playing into his hands and offering him the opportunity to declare an insurrection.

It’s such a waste and it’s only because we haven’t thought things through strategically.

Nothing I thought of is particularly original.

It was all learned by watching the early civil rights protests in the 50s and 60s.

And it was the discipline and courage of African-Americans that drew such a clear line in the American sand that people were forced to take sides and that produced the civil rights act.

The American people are watching and once again if we behave in ways that can be misinterpreted, we’ll see this explained to the public in Republican campaign videos benefiting the very people who started this.

Wake up.

Vent at home.

In public practice discipline and self control.

It takes much more courage."

— Peter Coyote

Zen teacher and author/narrator, with Ken Burns

Note: Carry an American flag. As the administration creates a fake emergency to justify a state crackdown, it's important to honor the values and vision of democracy for which we're advocating.

When the Enquirer came for pics back in 2017, I smiled a big toothy grin and held a big flag as it felt so empowering and good to stand with my adult daughter, pastors, Franciscans, nuns, kids, parents, grandparents and some women from our women's groups for the values we tried to pass on.

After the protest, we sang and marched to a church where we heard poignant witness of immigrants trying to build a better life for their families against insurmountable odds.

Many Marines, National Guardsmen and vets are over on Threads and Substack expressinging their disagreement over being used by this lawless administration.

Peace, santi and shalom to all.

— Leslie Flood Hershberger

[Jayson G]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

He is bad, but not as bad as leftists fear. At least not yet. Who knows how low he will stoop in the end. The potential for serious danger is there. But leftists do overblow it most of the time.

Striking the right balance on Trump is admittedly very challenging. It's unclear how bad things will get. I can see things getting real bad, or just mildly bad.

It's important to remain clear-eyed and accurate, without exaggerating anything.

@Leo Gura I didn't even realize things can get worse lol .. I really need to watch your 4 part politics series. 

None of politics make sense to me. It feels like a jungle where its hard to understand anything. All other aspects of personal development are far more clear to understand, but politics is a mess from my POV. 

So many lies, bias, etc. 

I recall mark andreesan say he read tons of books on politics .. yet he's the biggest trump supporter ever .. claiming its "morning in america" .. but of course he is highly biased by techno-optimism, but its surprising because despite reading tons of books, he seems deluded to be a huge trump supporter without naunce. 

[danniel]

@oldhandle

I agree with you partially. In my opinion, overall, these riots are valid in their place, for the brutality citizens are facing. Some people are saying immigrants do commit crimes against natives, but they are should punished according to the law, not like the current situation. One massive plot hole is how there is no targeting of the businesses who employ immigrants. Which really makes me believe these raids are meant to be fear instilling tactics. 

For Leo being 'neutral', we know he is anti trump. The thing is, he understands such minds well, and same for the minds on the other end. For the past 3 years or so, he is going full 'Infinite, God, One mind' route. (idk if that is the right word or not) but that takes a lot of open mindedness and neutrality and deep understanding of core concepts like Non Duality. 

I am not defending his non supportiveness of the good side, but just the fact, many probably will not understand these events like he does. For a hungry man, a banana will mean a blessing in this moment, for dog it will mean nothing, for a man who ate 50 bananas, that one banana will stir unpleasant emotions. ( A very crude example but I hope it steers the message for meaning and perspective)

Lastly, I agree with some of the point people are making for Leo not being supportive of the left here, but yea, God would not judge a butterfly and a cockroach for how they look, for it is unbiased. And for a biased mind, with many attachments and prefences, like my own, I find his words negatively surprising.

Feel free to disagree. 

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, Jayson G said:

its surprising because despite reading tons of books, he seems deluded to be a huge trump supporter without naunce. 

It's not surprising.

Billionaire and oligarch class loves Trump because all they do is chase power.

[Jayson G]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

It's not surprising.

Billionaire and oligarch class loves Trump because all they do is chase power.

@Leo Gura maybe its a rule of life: the less you possess (stuff, attachments, etc.) .. the clearer you see. Just a theory. 

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, danniel said:

I agree with some of the point people are making for Leo not being supportive of the left here,

I am never going to support riots or illegal activity for any leftist cause.