LA Protests

[Porphyry Fedotov]

2 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

I think you have to look at every country separately and then see what works with immigration and what not. You can’t say immigration is good and you can’t say it’s bad. Depends if the country is willing to integrate the immigrants and also if the immigrants are willing to integrate into another society.

Integration is just another buzzword. What does integration even mean? I think speaking the language to some degree is more than enough. When I was in India, I liked how different groups of people kept their customs and clothing etc while living together. Like muslims were wearing muslim clothes and selling their food and stuff at food stalls, like right around the corner, you could see sikhs or whatever wearing their clothes doing their thing. All this multitude of distinct colourful cultures, each with their traditions and languages, is enriching society as a whole, making it more beautiful and unique. One grey monoculture is boring and degrading

[PurpleTree]

3 minutes ago, Porphyry Fedotov said:

Integration is just another buzzword. What does integration even mean? I think speaking the language to some degree is more than enough. When I was in India, I liked how different groups of people kept their customs and clothing etc while living together. Like muslims were wearing muslim clothes and selling their food and stuff at food stalls, like right around the corner, you could see sikhs or whatever wearing their clothes doing their thing. All this multitude of distinct colourful cultures, each with their traditions and languages, is enriching society as a whole, making it more beautiful and unique. One grey monoculture is boring and degrading

Well in Europe recently-ish there are many young men immigrants from Muslim countries who don’t integrate well. Commit crimes etc. even second generation. Look at Sweden for example.

[oldhandle]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Bro. America is broke. And racist.

Don't be a smartass. I am pointing you towards things you don't yet understand.

I still don't understand how you can say stuff like that about USA but then balk at the concept of Americans who have enough money to do so moving to another country. 

[Apparition of Jack]

18 minutes ago, oldhandle said:

I still don't understand how you can say stuff like that about USA but then balk at the concept of Americans who have enough money to do so moving to another country. 

Leo is full of shit. A deeply confused man. A man who openly talks about the corruption of the Trump administration but then defend’s Trump’s illegal policies. A man who talks about the need for growth, love and consciousness but then stays in the same outdated thought-patterns he has for years. A man who talks about the need to question your biases then refuses to do so himself.

I think he’s just scared at heart. A man unable to completely accept the collective reality he lives in and would much rather believe the comforting lie that he’s above it all. I don’t even hate the guy. I just wish he found the courage to admit his own weaknesses.

 

EDIT: The worst part is, Leo would be an unmitigated force for good if he just put his ego aside and took to the sacred work of resisting tyranny and protecting humanity and democracy.

His race, insight, wealth, connections, manner of speech and utterly impeccable epistemic foundation would be like a tidal wave of light and truth against all the endless, vile, racist, selfish grifter bullshit infecting the manosphere these days and politics at large. He would be nigh-untouchable to all the masses of confused white men unable to claw themselves out of epistemic and emotional poverty. If he committed to human activism, he could genuinely change the world, but he doesn’t. His heart is too full of doubt. 

Edited June 10 by Apparition of Jack

[PurpleTree]

And also integration in certain European countries means that you have to do some stuff. Like as a man you have to be able to shake a woman’s hand. You have to respect women to a certain extent. The laws. Criticism of religion. Which some Muslim men for example have a problem with shaking women’s hands etc.

[Porphyry Fedotov]

22 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Well in Europe recently-ish there are many young men immigrants from Muslim countries who don’t integrate well. Commit crimes etc. even second generation. Look at Sweden for example.

Give me some studies on that. Sounds like right-wing bs

13 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

And also integration in certain European countries means that you have to do some stuff. Like as a man you have to be able to shake a woman’s hand. You have to respect women to a certain extent. The laws. Criticism of religion. Which some Muslim men for example have a problem with shaking women’s hands etc.

Cultural stuff is up to you lol

I agree with Hasan on this one.

[PurpleTree]

1 minute ago, Porphyry Fedotov said:

Give me some studies on that. Sounds like right-wing bs

Cultural stuff is up to you lol

I agree with Hasan on this one.

Honestly i have zero interest in convincing you of anything. You can believe what you want. Ciao bello

[PurpleTree]

1 hour ago, zazen said:

It doesn't have enough resources for its own people otherwise it would have a welfare system like Europe - which is also under pressure now. If it can't provide for its own people how can it provide for people coming in.

You know it’s wild if in Europe the welfare state is under pressure and also cheaper medication etc. As it « should » have been the other way. That hyper capitalism and military industrial complex should have been under pressure in the US. I guess we’ll see. Because of defense/army spending etc.

Edited June 10 by PurpleTree

[Vynce]

4 hours ago, Apparition of Jack said:

Just because they’re not openly advocating for the extermination of Latinos or whatever (although go on Twitter and you’ll see countless accounts expressing that exact sentiment), doesn’t mean their worldview isn’t fundamentally baked in anti-human white supremacy. A Nazi who “only” wants to deport every black and brown person from America regardless of the human cost is still a Nazi, they don’t need the death camps and swastika logos to prove this.

A radical Islamist who calls for the death of the West and the final victory of Islam is still a radical Islamist, even if they don’t openly try to suicide bomb people (but then again they probably have obvious connections to groups who do.)

It’s a sinister game of deflect and deny and I’m honestly tired of pretending that illegal mass ethnic deportations are “ok” just because the people doing so aren’t also waging war on Poland or whatever.

Nobody said its ok.

But you do grant the OG Nazis a ton of humanity by equating them with Elon and Trump. Its just the wrong word. Nobody believes you if you water it down that much.

The Nazis killed and tortured thousands of political adversaries openly in the streets, even before they rose to power. Elon and Musk have not killed one person openly, although they 'could' now.

Deportations were 1% of german Nazi politics.

Edited June 10 by Vynce

[Apparition of Jack]

14 minutes ago, Vynce said:

Nobody said its ok.

But you do grant the OG Nazis a ton of humanity by equating them with Elon and Trump. Its just the wrong word. Nobody believes you if you water it down that much.

The Nazis killed and tortured thousands of political adversaries openly in the streets, even before they rose to power. Elon and Musk have not killed one person openly, even if they 'could' now.

Deportations were 1% of german Nazi politics.

That’s the problem though- it’s not that they won’t use those tactics, it’s just that (so far) it’s been too politically costly to do so. If Trump thought he cold maintain power forever by shooting a bunch of peaceful protestors, he would do so in an instant.

We can’t let it get that bad. That’s the whole point of resistance - to make fascism so politically costly that it ends up defeating itself. Trump’s first term was largely reigned in by capable people putting a check on his worst impulses; this second time we don’t have that luxury. We genuinely have to fight like our lives depend on it because they may very well will. 
 

We can’t repeat the mistakes of the past. We have to show the world humanity is better than that, and that there is hope for all of us. We have to defeat fascism.

[oldhandle]

2 hours ago, Apparition of Jack said:

Leo is full of shit. A deeply confused man. A man who openly talks about the corruption of the Trump administration but then defend’s Trump’s illegal policies. A man who talks about the need for growth, love and consciousness but then stays in the same outdated thought-patterns he has for years. A man who talks about the need to question your biases then refuses to do so himself.

I think he’s just scared at heart. A man unable to completely accept the collective reality he lives in and would much rather believe the comforting lie that he’s above it all. I don’t even hate the guy. I just wish he found the courage to admit his own weaknesses.

 

EDIT: The worst part is, Leo would be an unmitigated force for good if he just put his ego aside and took to the sacred work of resisting tyranny and protecting humanity and democracy.

His race, insight, wealth, connections, manner of speech and utterly impeccable epistemic foundation would be like a tidal wave of light and truth against all the endless, vile, racist, selfish grifter bullshit infecting the manosphere these days and politics at large. He would be nigh-untouchable to all the masses of confused white men unable to claw themselves out of epistemic and emotional poverty. If he committed to human activism, he could genuinely change the world, but he doesn’t. His heart is too full of doubt. 

holy shit bro lmao

[LordFall]

3 hours ago, Apparition of Jack said:

Leo is full of shit. A deeply confused man. A man who openly talks about the corruption of the Trump administration but then defend’s Trump’s illegal policies. A man who talks about the need for growth, love and consciousness but then stays in the same outdated thought-patterns he has for years. A man who talks about the need to question your biases then refuses to do so himself.

I think he’s just scared at heart. A man unable to completely accept the collective reality he lives in and would much rather believe the comforting lie that he’s above it all. I don’t even hate the guy. I just wish he found the courage to admit his own weaknesses.

 

EDIT: The worst part is, Leo would be an unmitigated force for good if he just put his ego aside and took to the sacred work of resisting tyranny and protecting humanity and democracy.

His race, insight, wealth, connections, manner of speech and utterly impeccable epistemic foundation would be like a tidal wave of light and truth against all the endless, vile, racist, selfish grifter bullshit infecting the manosphere these days and politics at large. He would be nigh-untouchable to all the masses of confused white men unable to claw themselves out of epistemic and emotional poverty. If he committed to human activism, he could genuinely change the world, but he doesn’t. His heart is too full of doubt. 

I think you’re projecting and lost in your stage green idealism. Leo has been openly clear about his beliefs being extremely anti trump. He’s just playing devils advocate to a silly leftist. Watch the understanding the conservative mind episode and it’ll make more sense to you. 

You’re just venting your frustration which is fair but to have real impact on reality you must first seek to understand and only then seek to be understood. 

Edited June 10 by LordFall

[BlueOak]

3 hours ago, Apparition of Jack said:

Leo is full of shit. A deeply confused man. A man who openly talks about the corruption of the Trump administration but then defend’s Trump’s illegal policies. A man who talks about the need for growth, love and consciousness but then stays in the same outdated thought-patterns he has for years. A man who talks about the need to question your biases then refuses to do so himself.

Leo in this role is your mentor, he's taking a role that will hopefully help you.

Note:  I am generally with your position, and I would be actively organising a group against it if I was in the states and faced with it.

The liberal centralist position is to remain orderly and ride out the status quo, with some political pushback ofc. But honestly they need to effectively use the law to hold ICE accountable also if that is the official opposition. Things like an ICE operative pointing a gun at a distraught wife because they are taking her husband, for example, needs to be quashed now legally and procedurally. Before the next wife gets shot and then all hell breaks loose. - Which is esentially what is going on now, with the law weaponised against the people, not for them.

*International press reporters getting shot isn't exactly going down well either abroad:
 

 

Edited June 10 by BlueOak

[Apparition of Jack]

You know what I think it is? What it really just comes down to?

We’re all afraid of being killed. That’s it. 
 

We’ve gotten so use to political stability and reasonable (enough) governance thar the idea that this things could fail and the institutions that should protect us instead could turn against us frightens the begeezus out of us. Which… of course it does. That’s scary as fuck.

But… that’s where we are anyway. People could die. Well-meaning, sensible people could die.

None of us chose this. Many of us chose to fight against this. But it found us all the same.

Look, I don’t want to die more than anyone else. I enjoy my life here on earth and want to make the most of it. And I’m certainly not going to needlessly go out and provoke violence. 
 

But paradoxically sometimes the best way to protect yourself is to protect others first. “First they came for the unionists” and all that. 
 

If anyone here has a sense of faith or their higher power/self I feel like it’s time to put your trust in that. Learn to accept every day as it comes and believe in the fundamental goodness of humanity, no matter what happens. We’re eventually going to die anyway, why not at least try to uphold what you truly believe while you’re here?

What’s the alternative? Just roll over and let fascism win? Let millions of people be oppressed, hurt, imprisoned, shot and killed while we do nothing? Especially if we had the chance to stop it? 
 

Why would anyone accept that? Is life with a jackboot over your neck really a life? You could argue that at least you’d be alive, but to what end? Just so you can get high / jerk off / slave away at a job in private? And especially when there’s a chance for a better future for everyone?

Why content yourself with misery? Don’t any of you believe this world could be better? Freer, kinder, more creative, more uplifting? Are we just meant to be slaves for faceless corporations and vile political ideologies our entire lives? Is that all that it means to be human?

Or is there the chance of something more? Something truer, more meaningful, more wholesome, more enlightening? Why not take that chance? Why waste the only life you’ve got pretending this is all you’re good for? 

We can actually do this, actually. It’s not impossible to build a better world. In 1939 everyone thought the Nazis would rule. A few years later Hitler was dead and democracy reigned triumphant. 
 

Why not follow in the steps of our forefathers? Why not believe in the world that’s already given us so much? We aren’t an evil species, and I’ll believe that until the day I die.

Why give up?

[PurpleTree]

8 minutes ago, Apparition of Jack said:

You know what I think it is? What it really just comes down to?

We’re all afraid of being killed. That’s it. 
 

We’ve gotten so use to political stability and reasonable (enough) governance thar the idea that this things could fail and the institutions that should protect us instead could turn against us frightens the begeezus out of us. Which… of course it does. That’s scary as fuck.

But… that’s where we are anyway. People could die. Well-meaning, sensible people could die.

None of us chose this. Many of us chose to fight against this. But it found us all the same.

Look, I don’t want to die more than anyone else. I enjoy my life here on earth and want to make the most of it. And I’m certainly not going to needlessly go out and provoke violence. 
 

But paradoxically sometimes the best way to protect yourself is to protect others first. “First they came for the unionists” and all that. 
 

If anyone here has a sense of faith or their higher power/self I feel like it’s time to put your trust in that. Learn to accept every day as it comes and believe in the fundamental goodness of humanity, no matter what happens. We’re eventually going to die anyway, why not at least try to uphold what you truly believe while you’re here?

What’s the alternative? Just roll over and let fascism win? Let millions of people be oppressed, hurt, imprisoned, shot and killed while we do nothing? Especially if we had the chance to stop it? 
 

Why would anyone accept that? Is life with a jackboot over your neck really a life? You could argue that at least you’d be alive, but to what end? Just so you can get high / jerk off / slave away at a job in private? And especially when there’s a chance for a better future for everyone?

Why content yourself with misery? Don’t any of you believe this world could be better? Freer, kinder, more creative, more uplifting? Are we just meant to be slaves for faceless corporations and vile political ideologies our entire lives? Is that all that it means to be human?

Or is there the chance of something more? Something truer, more meaningful, more wholesome, more enlightening? Why not take that chance? Why waste the only life you’ve got pretending this is all you’re good for? 

We can actually do this, actually. It’s not impossible to build a better world. In 1939 everyone thought the Nazis would rule. A few years later Hitler was dead and democracy reigned triumphant. 
 

Why not follow in the steps of our forefathers? Why not believe in the world that’s already given us so much? We aren’t an evil species, and I’ll believe that until the day I die.

Why give up?

I mean Trump and MaGa is in a way just a race against time. Trump is already not very popular and at some point there will be more brown people in the US than not. Same with Putin and the decline of Russia and so on.

There is no way to really stop progress. It can be slowed down. Which maybe sometimes it « should »

Edited June 10 by PurpleTree

[PurpleTree]

4 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

 

There is no way to really stop progress.

Or maybe there is a way like with religion in Iran and Afghanistan. But even there i think it’ll crumble soon-ish. Although who knows, i don’t know anything.

[Apparition of Jack]

Just now, PurpleTree said:

I mean Trump and MaGa is in a way just a race against time. Trump is already not very popular and at some point there will be more brown people in the US than not. Same with Putin and Russia and so on.

There is no way to really stop progress. It can be slowed down. Which maybe sometimes it « should »

But that progress is built off gruelling, often risky work. Civil Rights didn’t just happen. The abolition of slavery didn’t just happen. These things had to be fought for, by millions of people, against the powers that be that benefited from the corrupt status quo.

Honestly, I’m not even saying become a revolutionary. I think old Marxist ideas are completely out of date. I’m not even sure if violence is necessary.

But what is necessary is a degree of courage, selflessness and principled action most of us have just kind of forgotten about. We got to use to our cushy lives that the idea we could have a positive impact became alien to us. 

Calling out violence, racism and fascism isn’t a huge ask. Calling your local representatives, reaching out to vulnerable people, supporting holistic political causes isn’t a big ask. In fact, for living in some of the most prosperous societies on the planet, it’s probably the least you could do. 
 

And of course, if you’re up for it, attend protests. Be disciplined and non-violent, but resist government tyranny all the same. I’d like to point out that literally no one has died in these protests so far (compared to the Jan 6th insurrection, which led to multiple deaths.) Taking direct political action isn’t even some radical political idea - it was how America was founded. 
 

I don’t understand how all of this isn’t self-evident. If you’re a conservative for whatever reason this won’t appeal to you, but then I’d say… conservatism has failed in bettering the lives of people. All it provides is defense of greed, hatred and wilful ignorance. There are some good conservative ideas but they died as a legitimate political force in 2016 when Republicans decided Trump would make a good president. 
 

Why not be a force for good, in whatever capacity you can? Whether that’s as an activist, a community organiser, a politician, or even just someone who checks in on their neighbours? How tf is that so frightening? Lmao. Talk about a “male loneliness epidemic” 🤣

And always remember, we can and we will win. It’s written in the stars. The question isn’t a matter of if, but how. Will it come after 15 years, with constant relentless bullshit from fascist MAGA in the meantime? Or will it come much sooner than that, if only we work for it? 

[PurpleTree]

1 minute ago, Apparition of Jack said:

But that progress is built off gruelling, often risky work. Civil Rights didn’t just happen. The abolition of slavery didn’t just happen. These things had to be fought for, by millions of people, against the powers that be that benefited from the corrupt status quo.

Honestly, I’m not even saying become a revolutionary. I think old Marxist ideas are completely out of date. I’m not even sure if violence is necessary.

But what is necessary is a degree of courage, selflessness and principled action most of us have just kind of forgotten about. We got to use to our cushy lives that the idea we could have a positive impact became alien to us. 

Calling out violence, racism and fascism isn’t a huge ask. Calling your local representatives, reaching out to vulnerable people, supporting holistic political causes isn’t a big ask. In fact, for living in some of the most prosperous societies on the planet, it’s probably the least you could do. 
 

And of course, if you’re up for it, attend protests. Be disciplined and non-violent, but resist government tyranny all the same. I’d like to point out that literally no one has died in these protests so far (compared to the Jan 6th insurrection, which led to multiple deaths.) Taking direct political action isn’t even some radical political idea - it was how America was founded. 
 

I don’t understand how all of this isn’t self-evident. If you’re a conservative for whatever reason this won’t appeal to you, but then I’d say… conservatism has failed in bettering the lives of people. All it provides is defense of greed, hatred and wilful ignorance. There are some good conservative ideas but they died as a legitimate political force in 2016 when Republicans decided Trump would make a good president. 
 

Why not be a force for good, in whatever capacity you can? Whether that’s as an activist, a community organiser, a politician, or even just someone who checks in on their neighbours? How tf is that so frightening? Lmao. Talk about a “male loneliness epidemic” 🤣

And always remember, we can and we will win. It’s written in the stars. The question isn’t a matter of if, but how. Will it come after 15 years, with constant relentless bullshit from fascist MAGA in the meantime? Or will it come much sooner than that, if only we work for it? 

Violence is not just maybe not necessary but it’ll probably steer things spiraling down. And honestly probably enemies/competition like Russia and China are just waiting for it. I think it has to be peaceful. Right wingers have more guns anyway. Like Ghandi naan violence. 

[Apparition of Jack]

2 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Violence is not just maybe not necessary but it’ll probably steer things spiraling down. And honestly probably enemies/competition like Russia and China are just waiting for it. I think it has to be peaceful. Right wingers have more guns anyway. Like Ghandi naan violence. 

Yes good point. Taking a principled non-violent stance would make the Trump administration look much worse too. The more we can stand up for what we believe in despite the threats of opposition, the better we’ll look to everyone. People love an underdog after all

[PurpleTree]

5 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Violence is not just maybe not necessary but it’ll probably steer things spiraling down. And honestly probably enemies/competition like Russia and China are just waiting for it. I think it has to be peaceful. Right wingers have more guns anyway. Like Ghandi naan violence. 

Although that is also unknowable. For example Tibetans tried non violence against the Chinese and lost their territory and self determination.