Why Women Prefer Betas

[Emerald]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Ahahahahahahaha.... 

Vylana and Alana have joined the chat.

I said most... not all.

[Emerald]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

That's just untrue.

Hyper masculine is the ideal for great reason. It gets you LOTS of sex.

Emerald, you do not represent typical women or men. You are highly unusual.

Typical men and women are chimps. I've seen thousands of them up close in Vegas. They are way less mature than you imagine. I promise.

First off, no man can change his level of Masculinity as it is innate. So, it doesn't matter what is ideal, as everyone is working with what they got... unless they start taking hormones or steroids.

I'm just trying to communicate to men that most women don't prefer a hyper-Masculine guy... and more average expressions of Masculinity are plenty attractive to women... even more attractive than hyper-Masculinity is in the eyes of most women.

Keep in mind, a lot of these young men believe they have to be Rambo for a woman to actually be interested in them as a person. And that any woman who likes them is just settling for them because she "can't land Rambo".

That's the narrative they're feeding men now-a-days. And if you were female, you would know how bullshit they really are as you'd have experienced being hyper-attracted to an average guy, and you wouldn't believe the things you currently believe from the blindspot you're in as a straight man.

It's just conflating what men respect about men with what women are attracted to in men, which are two very different things.

Hyper-Masculinity just isn't very attractive at all. Not to body shame or personality shame, but it's a little bit repellent. And most women will tell you that. (There are also things that are very Feminine and considered unattractive too... like cellulite.)

So, clearly I am not as unusual as you think I am... and the study Dr. K stated in the video backs that up... as do the street interviews of women rating the most attractive male body types.

Women aren't as attracted to hyper-Masculine guys as they are guys who have a mixture of hard and soft qualities... and that includes body types.

You just don't understand female sexuality as well as you think you do... and you don't really get what women really find appealing about men. And I do mean MOST women.

it's a shame too... because you're missing out because the attractive things about Masculinity are a lot more subtle. They whisper and they don't scream. And they come across when the man is just being himself, comfortable in his own skin, and isn't even trying to be particularly manly.

Imagine women at large were under the impression that they had to garishly exaggerate their Femininity to the degree that they made themselves less attractive. Like if 90% of women thought they needed to look like the lady in the image below to be interesting to men.

Then, you tried to tell women (of varying levels of attractiveness) that they don't need to exaggerate their Femininity to the highest degree to be attractive to men, and they said, "No way. That is the very best way to get lots of men interested in sleeping you is to exaggerate your Femininity as much as possible."

And you'd be like, "Sure. If that's what you want."

But you said so yourself that that isn't what you want... and that you're looking for one partner.

And while most men would like to have a promiscuous phase, most men would also eventually like to have women see them as longterm relationship material and don't want to come across like a raging fuckboy on steroids... which most discerning women will filter out of consideration, not just because it's not good... but because it's not very attractive or appealing either.

Long story short, Masculinity is most intriguing when it's subtle and unpretended... and when the fierceness of it is mixed with human tenderness enough to where you can actually connect to it intimately.

[Lyubov]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It took a lot of deep soul-searching and painful truth-seeking.

Because I was so involved in pickup, I had some untrue ideas implanted into my mind early on.

In pickup it's very important to believe that looks don't matter at all. Because this increases your results.

The more you think looks matter the less laid you'll get. This is what blackpillers don't understand.

Pickup requires delusional confidence, as Owen likes to say. It's very true. You need to believe you are the sexiest guy in the world regardless of objective reality. I drank from that poisoned chalice.

What’s wrong with that? Recognizing your own uniqueness and greatness and giving a middle finger to all comparisons. You are self sabotaging way more if you take note of and count every potential flaw against yourself if you start giving weight to what isn’t working for you. I don’t see how recognizing whether or nots looks mattering changes much (they obviously matter and should be maximized). I just don’t think it’s poisoned. Obviously one should be maximizing their looks physique the best they can, that can go a long way. You’re just arguing for your shortcomings if you put energy into focusing on what brings you down (if you aren’t willing to change them)

Edited June 9 by Lyubov

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, Raze said:

A counter to this is a lot of male sex symbols aren’t necessarily hyper masculine, they are flowy and dandy like Harry Styles. Rather than the Jocko Willink type.

Yes, Harry Styles is quite attractive because he has a mixture of hard and soft qualities. And you'll find the women's celebrity crushes usually have this hard/soft combo going on because that's what most women prefer.

And that Jocko Willink guy is very Masculine and has the characteristic unsexiness to his appearance that most hyper-Masculine guys have.

Like, I can't imagine having a tender human moment with him... nor a passionate moment just from looking at his appearance.

Of course, he could be a really nice tender guy irl. His unexpressive appearance just suggests otherwise... so he's not appealing at first glance. 

So, at first blush, he seems to be a low emotional stimulation kind of guy because you wouldn't be able to see any emotions or conflict reflecting in his eyes when sleeping with him. 

Like a going to bed with a statue.

[Lyubov]

9 hours ago, Emerald said:

Why? It's a lot more forgiving than what men tend to believe women want.

Because a lot of women rack up a high body count and then manipulate their way to a beta guy who doesn’t know what he’s settling for. Basically ran through women connive their way to more naive men who deserve a better deal.   

[Emerald]

2 minutes ago, Lyubov said:

Because a lot of women rack up a high body count and then manipulate their way to a beta guy who doesn’t know what he’s settling for. Basically ran through women connive their way to more naive men who deserve a better deal.   

That's what the narrative is that men are getting brainwashed into to increase their insecurities so that they buy more information products from online Masculinity peddlers who want to profit from their insecurities.

You seem believe that women are SETTLING for the beta guy after they've had their "fun" with the gigachads.

But women actually PREFER the beta guy. No settling necessary.

[Lyubov]

4 minutes ago, Emerald said:

That's what the narrative is that men are getting brainwashed into to increase their insecurities so that they buy more information products from online Masculinity peddlers who want to profit from their insecurities.

You seem believe that women are SETTLING for the beta guy after they've had their "fun" with the gigachads.

But women actually PREFER the beta guy. No settling necessary.

They prefer the beta guys after getting ran through by men who have no interest in settling them (basically the prize men from the other thread we were discussing who is the prize) and they don’t afford the same sexual privileges and freedoms to the beta guy who definitely desires that which the alpha got. Moaning about chores, not sharing him with other women, making him provide everything for her, loading him up with tons of responsibilities. He’s basically selling himself short. Prized alphas provide and still get to do what they want. 

Edited June 9 by Lyubov

[Lyubov]

Monogamy is basically to keep alphas and betas from going to war and all hell breaking loose, which is what is happening now in the western world. The betas are revolting and lining up to collect Pokémon cards. Gen z Incels voted Trump and tipped the scales. Beta men getting ran through western women has consequences on society. Decay. Label it the male loneliness epidemic if you want. It’s not that. They get plenty of socializing via discord. It’s hoeflation and too many beautiful women not being equally spread around, but going to the top due to wealth inequality. 

Edited June 9 by Lyubov

[Emerald]

21 minutes ago, Lyubov said:

They prefer the beta guys after getting ran through by men who have no interest in settling them (basically the prize men from the other thread we were discussing who is the prize) and they don’t afford the same sexual privileges and freedoms to the beta guy who definitely desires that which the alpha got. Moaning about chores, not sharing him with other women, making him provide everything for her, loading him up with tons of responsibilities. He’s basically selling himself short. Prized alphas provide and still get to do what they want. 

No, most women just prefer regular guys. Period.

This is a goofy mindset that will keep you lonely if you keep thinking this way.

You will be offended when a woman is genuinely attracted to you because "clearly she's been ran through by alphas to be settling for me."

And you will be grumbling about a woman not letting you cheat because "If she was with the alpha, she'd let him cheat all he wants."

It's unrealistic, and it's a losing mindset.

[Lyubov]

11 minutes ago, Emerald said:

No, most women just prefer regular guys. Period.

This is a goofy mindset that will keep you lonely if you keep thinking this way.

You will be offended when a woman is genuinely attracted to you because "clearly she's been ran through by alphas to be settling for me."

And you will be grumbling about a woman not letting you cheat because "If she was with the alpha, she'd let him cheat all he wants."

It's unrealistic, and it's a losing mindset.

I don’t disagree here. Most guys living pretty well and doing well need to make some concessions. Ultimately focusing on unfairness is a losing mindset. 

Edited June 9 by Lyubov

[Emerald]

Just now, Lyubov said:

I don’t think you are entirely wrong. Most guys living pretty well and doing well need to make some concessions. Ultimately focusing on unfairness is a losing mindset. 

But it's not just that "focusing" on the unfairness is a losing mindset.

It's believing in the narratives you've proposed in the first place that will be your own downfall because it so thoroughly misunderstands how women as a group tend to operate.

And this misinterpretation of women's nature will create bitterness in you and repel women who would prefer you.

[Lyubov]

1 hour ago, Emerald said:

But it's not just that "focusing" on the unfairness is a losing mindset.

It's believing in the narratives you've proposed in the first place that will be your own downfall because it so thoroughly misunderstands how women as a group tend to operate.

And this misinterpretation of women's nature will create bitterness in you and repel women who would prefer you.

We can agree to disagree on this part. I have been around plenty of women to see the things I don’t prefer about them and that go against my survival strategy. I’m just observing. Most guys do not prefer a woman who has slept around and plays the field while they haven’t but unfortunately many men get that. I would look into why body count matters for women vs men. Essentially this is what women preferring a beta male culminates in. Maybe you are an outlier, I can assure you most women prefer a more masculine guy and give it away to plenty of guys, sometimes alphas sometimes just their experimenting, before settling on a guy who is usually willing to settle for them while she was off sleeping around and while he was working his ass off to get noticed. 

Edited June 9 by Lyubov

[Raze]

1 hour ago, Emerald said:

No, most women just prefer regular guys. Period.

Then why do guys with careers like club promoters, musicians, or mma fighters tend to get so much more female attention than a average normal guy? 

Why does a dating app profile of a guy listing his height as 6’4, career as ceo, and photos like a mirror selfie showing abs or professional photos in a suit get way more matches than if a average guy makes a profile with a average job, average height, and average photos?

What you’re saying simply doesn’t add up. We constantly hear women complaining about how they can’t find a good man or the guy they like won’t commit and just puts them in a situationship. If they like regular guys this shouldn’t happen as there is an infinite amount of regular guys. Yet we know plenty of regular guys and they aren’t running through women while more women are throwing themselves at them. Most regular guys are fighting over scraps at this point.

We all get that most women don’t prefer some massive angry body builder caricature, but your narrative about women preferring regular guys and soft feminine men who chase them simply doesn’t match what we see in the real world. 

Edited June 9 by Raze

[Emerald]

2 minutes ago, Raze said:

Then why do guys with careers like club promoters, musicians, or mma fighters tend to get so much more female attention than a average normal guy? 

Why does a dating app profile of a guy listing his height as 6’4, career as ceo, and photos like a mirror selfie showing abs or professional photos in a suit get way more matches than if a average guy makes a profile with a average job, average height, and average photos?

What you’re saying simply doesn’t add up. We constantly hear women complaining about how they can’t find a good man or the guy they like won’t commit and just puts them in a situationship. If they like regular guys this shouldn’t happen as there is an infinite amount of regular guys. Yet we know plenty of regular guys and they aren’t the ones women are throwing themselves at.

We all get that most women don’t prefer some massive angry body builder caricature, but your narrative about women wanting regular guys and soft feminine men who chase them simply doesn’t match what we see in the real world. 

Because they have social status.

I mean regular guys in terms of level of Masculinity and muscularity... not in level of social status.

Plenty of musicians and club promoters are not hyper-Masculine guys. Some musicians are quite sensitive and Feminine. But they get a lot of female attention because of their talents or status.

Also, regular guys have women in situationships all the time. That's not reserved for hyper-Masculine guys... just low-investment guys.

Also, the CEO guy in the example is attractive to women because he's tall and he's a CEO... and probably has a strong looking body... not necessarily a hyper-Masculine one.

Usually when I think of the successful CEO type, he looks more like Patrick Bateman than he looks like He-Man.

Plus, it's on a dating site... so the women only have photos and information to go off of. They can't vet for vibes.

[Raze]

13 minutes ago, Emerald said:

Because they have social status.

I mean regular guys in terms of level of Masculinity and muscularity... not in level of social status.

Plenty of musicians and club promoters are not hyper-Masculine guys. Some musicians are quite sensitive and Feminine. But they get a lot of female attention because of their talents or status.

Also, regular guys have women in situationships all the time. That's not reserved for hyper-Masculine guys... just low-investment guys.

Also, the CEO guy in the example is attractive to women because he's tall and he's a CEO... and probably has a strong looking body... not necessarily a hyper-Masculine one.

Usually when I think of the successful CEO type, he looks more like Patrick Bateman than he looks like He-Man.

Plus, it's on a dating site... so the women only have photos and information to go off of. They can't vet for vibes.

I think we are talking at cross purposes then. What you envision as examples of a regular guy / feminine guy and a GigaChad / Alpha, aren’t the same as what we are thinking of.

Edited June 9 by Raze

[Emerald]

17 minutes ago, Lyubov said:

We can agree to disagree on this part. I have been around plenty of women to see the things I don’t prefer about them and that go against my survival strategy. I’m just observing. Most guys do not prefer a woman who has slept around and plays the field while they haven’t but unfortunately many men get that. I would look into why body count matters for women vs men. Essentially this is what women preferring a beta male culminates in. Maybe you are an outlier, I can assure you most women prefer a more masculine guy and give it away to plenty of guys, sometimes alphas sometimes just their experimenting, before settling on a guy who is usually willing to settle for them while she was off sleeping around and while he was working his ass off to get noticed. 

I'm not an outlier. You just don't understand how women actually operate.

Just look at the data... and you will see that women don't prefer hyper-Masculine guys.

Men prefer hyper-Masculine guys and find them more attractive. But women tend to prefer men who are Masculine but not in an extreme way.

This is also why Hollywood heartthrobs are more like Brad Pitt types rather than Dwayne Johnson types.

Here's some videos that reflect this...

 

[Jacob Morres]

2 hours ago, Emerald said:

You can't change ur masculinity

Well in terms of confidence, assertiveness, ambition. I found a lot of these traits can be quite learnable ime, no? Or did u mean smth else 

[Emerald]

7 minutes ago, Raze said:

I think we are talking at cross purposes then. What you envision as examples of a regular guy / feminine guy and a GigaChad / Alpha, aren’t the same as what we are thinking of.

A regular guy is a guy with an average level of Masculinity with either a lean but strong body type... or a more average but strong body type. And it's a guy who's got a mixture of Masculine and Feminine qualities.

At its most attractive, think of a Hollywood heartthrob guy who's like Ryan Gosling or Brad Pitt or Timothee Chalamet or someone like that who aren't hyper-Masculine but are Masculine with some softer qualities.

And in its more average expression, it's most men that exist on the planet.

The "alpha" guy is a super jacked and shredded guy who's hyper-Masculine and doesn't have much softness to him.

Think of guys with a physique like Dwayne Johnson or Arnold Schwarzenegger... but minus the warmth of personality. And it's men who tend to have smaller eyes, more angular faces, and a lower body-fat percentage.

And these are men who tend to have a more stoic and domineering way of coming across.

[Emerald]

1 minute ago, Jacob Morres said:

Well in terms of confidence, assertiveness, ambition. I found a lot of these traits can be quite learnable ime, no? Or did u mean smth else 

You can learn all those things. But you can't change your level of Masculinity as the Masculine and Feminine are more innate to the person and are baked right into the personality.

[Raze]

11 minutes ago, Emerald said:

A regular guy is a guy with an average level of Masculinity with either a lean but strong body type... or a more average but strong body type. And it's a guy who's got a mixture of Masculine and Feminine qualities.

At its most attractive, think of a Hollywood heartthrob guy who's like Ryan Gosling or Brad Pitt or Timothee Chalamet or someone like that who aren't hyper-Masculine but are Masculine with some softer qualities.

And in its more average expression, it's most men that exist on the planet.

The "alpha" guy is a super jacked and shredded guy who's hyper-Masculine and doesn't have much softness to him.

Think of guys with a physique like Dwayne Johnson or Arnold Schwarzenegger... but minus the warmth of personality. And it's men who tend to have smaller eyes, more angular faces, and a lower body-fat percentage.

And these are men who tend to have a more stoic and domineering way of coming across.

Right, the guys you are describing as “regular” are not what most of us envison as regular guys. The guys you describe as alpha are not what most of us are referring to. We aren’t talking about massive hypermasculine body builders.