Are men or women the prize?

[Xonas Pitfall]

2 minutes ago, Lyubov said:

Women absolutely filter how he describes. My girlfriend will literally take on a different cadence and tone in speech when she describes or talks about the vast majority of guys she sees as neutral and a MAN (guy who she is attracted to, me! ) 

Women do not see men they are attracted to as MEN. But the same concept extends to men. I don’t see fat women as WOMEN. They are neutral to me as well. 

I’m not sure why so many guys in these circles take it to such an extreme, as if women have some dark or malicious nature just because they don’t respond to men they find unattractive. The same applies to men, too. We’re all drawn to what we find attractive - it's human nature. Attractive things naturally grab our attention and get acknowledged. It’s just how perception and desire work. There’s no need to polarize it or claim that one gender is more biased or more virtuous than the other. We're all working with the same underlying instincts.

[Lyubov]

9 minutes ago, Emerald said:

Why do you have to frame male-female relationships in such an ugly way?

You're here chewing on these toxic philosophies, while there are men and women out there right now having real intimacy with one another.

You just have to let go of all these weird narratives that so many men are indoctrinated into now-a-days.

I don’t have to. It’s just a choice of mine because this forum is a bit colorful and I’ve been through all the ropes when it comes to women. You have zero conceptual understanding of just how difficult it is for a man to be seen as a MAN by a WOMAN. It’s like the war veteran, where everything he says comes out rough. He’s been through some shit. He has scars. That is the experience of the majority of western men born in the 90s or later. 

I do agree there is real intimacy and I do agree dropping the stories is the path towards that. This is what I strive for. But I do believe my lived experience and the typical “manosphere” narrative that is shared often on here by men is reasonably accurate in explaining what’s happening, at least putting some of it in context.

Edited June 6 by Lyubov

[AION]

I appreciate the input of women  but you guys will never be able to direct experience men’s experience. 
 

Before I created this topic I thoroughly tested my thesis. 
 

I approached girls seeing her as the prize and it always ended up in her being repulsed. 
Then I flipped the script and saw myself as the prize and many times she was drawn to me although initially she was holding back + she fell in love  

For me this is the only way to get 8’s, 9’s. There is no way for me to get quality girls with chasing them.  
 

I recommend men testing this for themselves and not listen to women in this thread because there is no way for them to get direct exp or test this out. So it is all mental gymnastics…

Edited June 6 by AION

[Xonas Pitfall]

9 minutes ago, AION said:

I approached girls seeing her as the prize and it always ended up in her being repulsed. 
Then I flipped the script and saw myself as the prize and many times she was drawn to me although initially she was holding back + she fell in love  

For me this is the only way to get 8’s, 9’s. There is no way for me to get quality girls with chasing them.  

No one’s saying you shouldn’t have confidence. If your mindset is something like “She’s amazing and I’m nothing,” then of course that’s going to hurt your chances. That kind of frame naturally works against you.

I think you might be overcomplicating it in your head.

Think about how most of your friendships formed - probably because you found the person interesting or cool, you were relaxed and friendly, you had some fun banter, and things just clicked. There weren’t power games. The more lighthearted, confident, and charismatic you are, the easier it becomes to build rapport and naturally vibe with someone.

The "I'm the prize" mindset can be incredibly helpful for building a strong frame/confidence, and if it's working for you, absolutely keep it. Just be careful not to twist that into thinking women have some dark or manipulative nature for being drawn to confidence. You're human too - you probably enjoy being around people who carry themselves well.

Ask yourself: when was the last time you were genuinely drawn to someone who acted like a doormat or was extremely insecure? Probably not often. It’s not about gender.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Emerald said:

But I wouldn't boil it down to pure physical sexuality

Pussy is much more than pure sexuality.

Pussy is a big abstract notion that fuels the whole feminine.

Edited June 6 by Leo Gura

[AION]

8 minutes ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

No one’s saying you shouldn’t have confidence. If your mindset is something like “She’s amazing and I’m nothing,” then of course that’s going to hurt your chances. That kind of frame naturally works against you.

I think you might be overcomplicating it in your head.

Think about how most of your friendships formed - probably because you found the person interesting or cool, you were relaxed and friendly, you had some fun banter, and things just clicked. There weren’t power games. The more lighthearted, confident, and charismatic you are, the easier it becomes to build rapport and naturally vibe with someone.

The "I'm the prize" mindset can be incredibly helpful for building a strong frame/confidence, and if it's working for you, absolutely keep it. Just be careful not to twist that into thinking women have some dark or manipulative nature for being drawn to confidence. You're human too - you probably enjoy being around people who carry themselves well.

Ask yourself: when was the last time you were genuinely drawn to someone who acted like a doormat or was extremely insecure? Probably not often. It’s not about gender.

There is always a power dynamic. Even if friendships. Especially in friendships. If you are blind to it it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. 
It is part of human nature. And is it pre verbal. 

[AION]

37 minutes ago, Lyubov said:

Women absolutely filter how he describes. My girlfriend will literally take on a different cadence and tone in speech when she describes or talks about the vast majority of guys she sees as neutral and a MAN (guy who she is attracted to, me! ) 

Women do not see men they are attracted to as MEN. But the same concept extends to men. I don’t see fat women as WOMEN. They are neutral to me as well. 

That is what I meant and everybody can observe it for themselves.  
 

I don’t want to spell it out because it will insult woman’s nature. But it is a very ugly side of woman’s nature. 
 

Mind you. Never tell the truth of her nature in her face. Just accept the truth and treat her accordingly. In the same way never tell a woman , man is the prize. One always sub communicates to the feminine. No explicit shit. 

Edited June 6 by AION

[Xonas Pitfall]

5 minutes ago, AION said:

There is always a power dynamic. Even if friendships. Especially in friendships. If you are blind to it it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. 
It is part of human nature. And is it pre verbal. 

Absolutely, my point is that this mindset isn’t about gender - women aren’t fundamentally different from anyone else in this regard.

Think about it: would you rather walk into a business deal confident they want you, or nervous and trying to prove yourself? In a job interview, would you believe you’re the perfect fit, or doubt your worth and seek their approval? At a networking event, do you show up as a magnetic presence or as someone hoping to be noticed?

Which approach do you think gets better results - coming from a place of self-worth and confidence, or self-doubt and neediness?

This isn’t some “dark secret red pill” myth exposing female nature, it’s simply a self-improvement strategy for building confidence and charisma. Believing in your own worth (I am the prize!) is a powerful way to make that happen. That's why it works for you.

Edited June 6 by Xonas Pitfall

[Miguel1]

9 hours ago, Emerald said:

But in the opposite situation where the woman is the prize, she can rest in the Feminine. And he will pursue her and invest in her.

I have to disagree with you here.

Whenever I have pursued a woman and made her the prize (whether big or small), it has never ever worked out. And it’s not like I am repulsive and unattractive in nature.

It’s been so ineffective to the point that I have grown up and eliminated that part of me completely. Now I only lead:

The other way around has always been how it works best (and I have been in 4 serious relationships). She needs to see me more as a prize - but obviously I need to also see great value in her too, if we are talking about a potential serious relationship. Otherwise it doesn’t matter too much as long as she is attractive and fun enough.

If she desires me bit / good chunk more than I desire her, I believe this is the best balance, when it comes to building a serious relationship.

I do agree with you on the idea where the woman chases after the man hard, and the man is just meh about the girl. This ain’t good either, from my own experience as a man.

Edited June 6 by Miguel1

[AION]

37 minutes ago, Emerald said:

I think you're just projecting the way you feel about unattractive women onto women... and assuming they are responding the same way to men that they don't find attractive.

No I don’t think so because I respect ugly woman. 

[AION]

54 minutes ago, Emerald said:

It's a projection.

Men who feel disgust towards unattractive women, will project that women are feeling disgust towards them when a woman doesn't find them attractive.

But women see men as neutral regardless of their level of attractiveness.. until one really strikes her fancy.

That is not true at all. 
 

If men get approached by a girl and the guy doesn’t want her, the guy is always flattered and treats her with respect and dignity. 

Neither did I ever shat on a woman for making a move, and I would never do that because it is not in my nature to do that  

I have never seen a guy take a shit on a girl for making herself vulnerable but I have seen the opposite a lot of times; when girls take a shit on a guy for daring to make a move.

With me they never do it because they know it will end up in a fight. I accidentally approach girls with a bf all the time and both treat me with respect because they know disrespect will have a price. But I know lesser men who get shat on and beaten  

Even Leo said he gets beaten by girls when doing pickup. He mentioned this recently. I never experienced this but a lot of guys do. 

Edited June 6 by AION

[Miguel1]

7 minutes ago, AION said:

No I don’t think so because I respect ugly woman. 

I always feel bad for them. Mostly because she would never be able to experience an attractive man like me (not meant to be arrogant lol).

—

Seems impossible to quote a second time on phone but you also say on your next post:

”If men get approached by a girl and the guy doesn’t want her, the guy is always flattered and treats her with respect and dignity.”

Totally agree. I always show the girl how much I appreciate her courage, initiative and proactiveness, even when I am not interested in her.

[AION]

1 minute ago, Miguel1 said:

I always feel bad for them. Mostly because she would never be able to experience an attractive man like me (not meant to be arrogant lol).

—

Seems impossible to quote a second time on phone but you also say on your next post:

”If men get approached by a girl and the guy doesn’t want her, the guy is always flattered and treats her with respect and dignity.”

Totally agree. I always show the girl how much I appreciate her courage, initiative and proactiveness, even when I am not interested in her.

That is what I noticed too in men. It is in the nature of men to be like this. 
 

The nature of woman in this regard is very different and very ugly which I don’t want to make explicit. 
 

I don’t want to spell it out but all guys know what I’m talking about. And the men who don’t they are talking out of their ass. 

If I get a green light I can make a thread about the female gaze. I studied this topic in my own life in the last 2 weeks in night clubs and all kind of settings. 

[Nemra]

42 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Pussy is a big abstract notion that fuels the whole feminine.

@Leo Gura, could you expand on that?

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, Nemra said:

@Leo Gura, could you expand on that?

Pussy has lots of survival needs. These are not merely physical but generate all the feminine emotions and psychological needs.

Contemplate all the needs that pussy has to survive. Do not limit survival to the physical. Consider the issue holistically.

Edited June 6 by Leo Gura

[Peo]

On 6.6.2025 at 10:13 AM, Leo Gura said:

Contemplate all the needs that pussy has to survive. Do not limit survival to the physical. Consider the issue holistically.

Is it possible to contemplate something you have never seen before? 

[Salvijus]

Maybe successful relationship is the price. 

[Schizophonia]

Seeing people in terms of prize shows that you are a social submissive.

If you are overlord then you listen to your gut, your "dopamine flow"; if you see that the relationship is not tending to be enjoyable enough then you leave and the matter is settled.

[Schizophonia]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Pussy

You use this word tacitly to maintain your mechanistic and hopeless vision of the world.

You could have simply said "women". 

Edited June 6 by Schizophonia

[AION]

@Schizophonia you are some strange cat 🐱 no phun intended 😂

Edited June 6 by AION