If there's only the now... how can we perceive pitch (frequency)?

[Mixcoatl]

I've been contemplating something that's been bugging me lately.
If there's only now, if reality unfolds solely in this eternal present, then how the hell can we perceive pitch — which depends on frequency, and frequency is defined across time?

I’m not questioning that pitch exists — we all experience it. I’m questioning how it arises if there's no true passage of time, just a single ongoing now. It seems paradoxical.

Here are two possible directions I’ve been considering:

Now isn’t a point in time — it's the entire axis.
Maybe the “now” includes a span of events — not sequentially, but as a kind of timeless pattern or structure. In that case, pitch could be a perceptual property of this structure.

Pitch is a qualia-like phenomenon.
Just like we perceive redness or the scent of cinnamon without understanding their physical foundations in full, maybe pitch arises directly in consciousness, and its apparent dependency on time is just a correlation — not causation.

I’d love to hear how others see this. Especially from those into phenomenology, neuroscience, or metaphysics.
How do you reconcile the perception of temporal phenomena like frequency with the claim that only the present exists?

[Jodistrict]

When you say frequency causes a pitch, you are referring to a scientific theory, which presupposes that the objective world of time and space exists.  So according to science, there is going to have to be a vibration over a time period to stimulate a perception of pitch.  But subjetively, we experience a pitch only in the now and the scientific theory is just a thought that may be occuring now.  What we experience is always now, even though in an objective world there appears to be a body moving through time. 

[Princess Arabia]

Simple. It happens NOW. Everything else you're talking about are stories about pitch and frequency. If it's happening, it's happening now. Ever see, hear, feel touch, smell anything other than in the present. Can you perceive anything other than when perception is happening. "Frequency defining across time" is a story. Not saying you're making it up and it's not the case, but it's a story and an idea about what frequency is. When I say story, I mean imagination, which is still happening in the present.

Edited Tuesday at 06:23 AM by Princess Arabia

[Princess Arabia]

2 minutes ago, Jodistrict said:

When you say frequency causes a pitch, you are referring to a scientific theory, which presupposes that the objective world of time and space exists.  So according to science, there is going to have to be a vibration over a time period to stimulate a perception of pitch.  But subjetively, we experience a pitch only in the now and the scientific theory is just a thought that may be occuring now.  What we experience is always now, even though in an objective world there appears to be a body moving through time. 

👍

[Mixcoatl]

8 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

👍

Alright folks, I’m not denying that the qualia I’m experiencing is happening right now, raw and direct. That’s not in question. But let’s not dismiss the patterns and correlations we constantly perceive by waving them off as “just stories” — like some pseudo-science fairytale. The truth is, there are correlations. When you hear a sound, there's usually a vibration involved. And yes, that vibration is also a kind of qualia — another flavor of experience.

 

But here's the kicker: vibration implies change. And change implies time. That’s where my question punches through: I’ve touched the eternal now — I’ve been there — but what the hell is that “now”?

 

To me, the “Now” isn’t some razor-thin slice on a timeline. It’s not a damn point. I think the Now is the entire axis. The whole thing. 

Forget the sound for a second. Here’s the real question:

How the hell does a phenomenon — a form of qualia like vibration — even appear, if it seemingly requires time to unfold?

 

I mean, if everything is happening in the eternal now, how does something that needs change over time even show up in experience?

That’s the paradox I’m stuck with.

[Princess Arabia]

If I walk to the store and it took me 15mins to get there from my previous destination, how could that happen without there being time and space? It never really happened. Nothing is happening. Time is also nothing appearing as time including space. The time you talk about is the same as a chair. The space you think is there can also be called a tree. Just as a tree appears, time and space also appears, now. Neither is separate from each other, neither is a thing. Only appears that way. To the observer. No observer no nothing. Magic baby magic. 

[Mixcoatl]

2 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

If I walk to the store and it took me 15mins to get there from my previous destination, how could that happen without there being time and space? It never really happened. Nothing is happening. Time is also nothing appearing as time including space. The time you talk about is the same as a chair. The space you think is there can also be called a tree. Just as a tree appears, time and space also appears, now. Neither is separate from each other, neither is a thing. Only appears that way. To the observer. No observer no nothing. Magic baby magic. 

I love your logic and it fits the experience of living the present moment: past is just a thought, not the actuality.

However, your logic is circular:

Time doesn't exist -> hence, nothing can exist -> hence, time and space cannot exist. 

The thing that blows my mind is when someone says "nothing happened". 

Yesterday I smoked 5-meo and sounds certainly happened!! The same today. Vibrations exist and by definition, they imply CHANGE of a state.

I half agree with you.

[Hojo]

@MixcoatlIf there is a movie screen nothing is happening to the movie screen except pictures. If the movie screen takes form of a character then things are happening to it but not from the perspective of the big picture and only if the big screen wants to it can equally say nothing is happening on my screen its just light. I think your mistake is thinking the change is happening to something or that something can change.Change exists but its nothing is changing its just a thing that exists. Its like a thing that everything(God) does.

All frequencies exist at the same time but you have separated yourself or twisted yourself so you can experience a certain one and can see it change. Like the radio stations are playing around you if your ears changed frequencies you could hear them. Everything is playing around you but your ears tune into one channel so you dont lose it.

Edited Tuesday at 06:28 PM by Hojo

[Mixcoatl]

2 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

The time you talk about is the same as a chair. The space you think is there can also be called a tree. 

This is absolutely mind-blowing. Yesterday in my bufo trip, I was totally convinced that space and time appear as the same thing. I was also convinced that I am every experience I was experiencing. however, I think I still can't grasp "THE THING". I need to smoke more

Thanks for your words

[Mixcoatl]

10 minutes ago, Hojo said:

All frequencies exist at the same time but you have separated yourself or twisted yourself so you can experience a certain one and can see it change. Like the radio stations are playing around you if your ears changed frequencies you could hear them. Everything is playing around you but your ears tune into one channel so you dont lose it.

Then. the now is all the times joint together in the same thing called now, right?

That's the core of my question. what the hell is NOW? is it more fundamental than the "screen"? NOW is the same thing as consciousness?

how do you know all the frequencies exist at the same time? Sorry for asking this question but I can't grasp that idea.

[Hojo]

@Mixcoatl Now is a void of nothing. If you reached the present moment you would see it has no context cant think and dosent even exist.

Humans basically live in past and future because they are running from the fact that nothing is happening.

If there was one drone frequency its like we are looking inside of the drone frequency and we are seeing an infinite variety if frequencies in the drone non existence frequency. And yours is one path it has you can go to any cause you are the lone drone frequency comparing yourself against other frequencies in the drone.

You aren't a frequency you are experiencing one and then another and are able to tell the difference only because you stay the same.

The only way yours can fuck up is it you fuck it up.

Edited Tuesday at 09:26 PM by Hojo

[Carl-Richard]

If there is only now, how does anything happen at all? "There is only now" is a stupid pointer. There is only what is. Then you can divide it into pieces through conceptualization, through things like change, movement, space and time, and you can understand things like frequency (which is an oscillation over time).

Edited Tuesday at 11:10 PM by Carl-Richard

[Princess Arabia]

3 hours ago, Mixcoatl said:

That's the core of my question. what the hell is NOW?

There really isn't any NOW. It's just that it's the word we use to describe the present moment and there really isn't even a present moment. Let me try my best to explain it to you to the best of my knowledge.

Think of a night dream or when you're asleep. The space and time in that dream is also dreamt up. While dreaming you're at the beach, where is the space and time then. You dream you're walking to the store, but you're laying in bed. Everything that is happening within the dream is happening within the time and space that's also within the dream. When you wake up, were you ever at the beach or walked to the store? No, it never really happened. The dream happened but what you were dreaming about never really happened. 

Where was this dream coming from. You'll say the brain, the mind, consciousness but it actually came from nowhere and came from nothing. It appeared while you were sleeping from nowhere. It didn't come from out of your head, if that's what you think. No time and space was needed for you to dream. Time and space was being dreamt and nothing really happened. You only remember dreaming after you wake up. When thoughts and mind appear. Thought is time and perception is space. All that's gone while you're asleep. When you're awake it appears. 

Same thing here. You are the dream. Everything you conceive of and perceive is illusory. There is no conceiver or perceiver. Things are just appearing and happening. The dream was appearing and happening, but you weren't there to say wow, look at this dream im dreaming. There was no actual observer. Even in lucid dreams. That just seems more real but it's still dreaming. Bear in mind that the word "dream" is just a word and what we've given meaning to. What's happening here can be called anything so don't get caught up with the word, just try and grasp what it is I'm saying. If you didn't know anything, you wouldn't be able to have a perception. Perception and knowing in the waking state is the dream. It's not really happening. 

The present moment, NOW, what is, All there is, Being, is "The Thing" you say you don't know what it is. No one knows. Another name is God or Absolute. It appears as everything. It's being everything. NOW. What you saw yesterday is now a memory happening NOW. Absolute is appearing as a memory NOW. When you think of the future, the Absolute is appearing as the future. The Absolute appears as space and time. The Absolute/God is nothing that's why it can appear as anything. That frequency you talk about is the Absolute appearing as such. The time the frequency needs to be perceived is the Absolute appearing as apparent frequency that needs time to be perceived. I'll stop here. Any questions, I'll try to answer. Hope you understand what I'm saying here. 

[Mixcoatl]

1 hour ago, Princess Arabia said:

 

Think of a night dream or when you're asleep. The space and time in that dream is also dreamt up. While dreaming you're at the beach, where is the space and time then. You dream you're walking to the store, but you're laying in bed. Everything that is happening within the dream is happening within the time and space that's also within the dream. When you wake up, were you ever at the beach or walked to the store? No, it never really happened. The dream happened but what you were dreaming about never really happened. 

 

I get everything you’re saying about dreams — really, I do. It reminds me of that analogy Rupert Spira uses about Mary and Jane... Everything that appears is in nowhere and in no time, yes, so far we agree. I logically understand that time doesn’t exist. And it’s not just theory: I’ve experienced the eternal NOW firsthand — with LSD, with Bufo. Those moments are undeniable.

And I appreciate the full explanation. Really. But here's the thing — here's the core of what won’t let me sleep:

How the fuck do vibrations exist if there’s no time?

when I hear a sound, it is always accompanied by a vibration, for any crazy reason. I can verify it in an oscilloscope.
Any kind of vibration — not just sound, not just scientific definitions — any vibration implies change.
And for change to happen, doesn’t there have to be time?
But time doesn’t just not exist — it’s not even an illusion. It’s just... not there.

That’s the wall I keep crashing into. You say, “things are just appearing and happening.”
But then you also say, “how could that happen without there being time and space? It never really happened”
Wait... what? So I never existed as a kid?
But I’m here now?
And when the experience of me as an old man appears... will this version of me never have existed from that perspective?

Maybe I need to keep digging. Maybe I’m missing something.
But from where I’m standing right now, vibrations feel undeniable. Change feels undeniable. You shake a table and you will feel the effect of that vibration in your hands.
Even if time’s not real, something is shifting.
And that something is messing with me.

It's not as easy as saying: "nothing exists and that thing about frequencies and vibrations are just narratives appearing in imagination"

Sorry if I’m being stubborn.
But this goddamn question has been haunting my mind for way too long.

[Mixcoatl]

Alright, let me rewrite the question — crystal clear:

I get non-duality. I resonate with it. I’ve seen it, I’ve been it. I understand there’s no such thing as time. Everything arises in nowhere, in no-time. That’s clear to me.

A picture can appear without time.
A flavor, a color, an emotion — they don’t need a timeline.
They just pop into awareness.

But what about a vibration?
What about a song?

A vibration demands change. It is change.
And change implies a before and an after — some sort of transition.
And that, by definition, sounds like time.

Now, I know what you’ll say:
“The past isn’t happening. It’s just memory. Just imagination. Just illusion.”
And I agree with that — 100%.

But here’s the paradox that keeps punching me in the chest:

If the past state of a vibration isn’t real,
If only the present state of it exists,
Then how can something like a vibration exist at all?

Why do we hear movement — pitch, oscillation, fluctuation —
when the very structure of vibration relies on something that supposedly doesn’t exist?

You get it?

 

[Leo Gura]

This is like asking, If there's only now, how can videos exist?

[Mixcoatl]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

This is like asking, If there's only now, how can videos exist?

Your comment made me LOL.

Because certainly it's the same question.

 

[Mixcoatl]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

This is like asking, If there's only now, how can videos exist?

You didn't even read the topic.

[LastThursday]

@Mixcoatl you have to differentiate a stretch of time from an instantaneous moment of change. It's clear that we experience change, so you could say there are qualia for change, it's part of the conscious experience. But time is different, it is an accumulation of change, all those small changes add up to give a sense of a block of time. But where does this block of time exist?

Time gets "encoded" into the present moment. Say you go to prove that pitch is a vibration, you break out your microphone and oscilloscope. You play a note and the waveform appears on the oscilloscope. Where is this vibration? It's on the oscilloscope screen. All those small changes accumulate in the oscilloscope itself and you infer that a vibration "happened". It's no different from your own memory of the past, those changes get imprinted in your mind and you infer the passage of time from there - but the recall of the past is always happening now.

Time is always constructed, but change is fundamental to consciousness.

 

[Princess Arabia]

Time and space appears to exist so it's not like we're not having the experience of it. It's not like a chair exists and time doesn't. The chair doesn't exist either. It only appears to, appears as a physical object to the one observing. Nothing can just pop up and be observed without the appearance of time and space either. That still requires the appearance of both for you to even see it there. What is being said here is that space is also popping up and time is also popping up - using your language. Without you being there neither pops up. Your perception of the object, whether physical or abstract, creates the space and your thought creates the time.

The Absolute, which is you, appears simultaneously or at the same time to render the experience of frequency happening. Time, space, frequency....all of it is appearing with your consciousness to produce the effects. This is why I've said before that consciousness is the dream and awareness also, they are not absolute. Youre trying to grasp this with the logical mind but try to think of it as everything is the Absolute appearing and consciousness and awareness are what's used to filter those appearances to give the effect of experience, a world, a you with a life and to allow for things to not seem unreal or imagined. Absolute also apparently appears as consciousness and awareness. Leo and most says that consciousness is fundamental but I'm still working on that because I can't see how that is when it implies someone to be conscious of something when that is duality.