Why i am not a vegan ?

[Basman]

8 hours ago, Emerald said:

So, I know he is using Leo's colloquial definition of survival to justify eating meat as a 'self focused thing he's doing towards his own ends'... but dishonestly mincing it with the weight and gravity of the "life and death" meaning of survival.

I don't like how you assume my intentions. I haven't actually said anything about the merits of veganism or meat-eating. I just have a different understanding of what survival is.

If anything, it's dishonest to assume intent over focusing on the quality of arguments.

9 hours ago, Emerald said:

It's a bit like how sex is part of survival from the colloquial way the Leo uses it. And then someone would dishonestly use Leo's definition of survival to justify raping someone to themselves because "Sex is part of survival... therefore raping someone is valid because I need it in order to survive".

That is a prime example of survival actually. I guarantee that the average serial rapists has all sorts of rationalizations about how women deserve it, etc.

Ethics and survival are two different and often opposing things. Ethics are limitations to one's selfishness. But ethics are also survival to a certain extent, as they are culturally informed and socially regulated. For example, sex slavery is abhorrent in western countries but completely normal and expected in Mauritania. People would look at you weird if you didn't keep slaves, like how big businesses are expected to screw over customers and steal wages and would get sued by their investors if they didn't. Ethics seem to have certain universality for humans at least, but I'm not completely sure and if to what extent.

Also, "validity is an inherently lingual notion. Tigers don't give a shit about "validity". In the context of survival "validity" is just an opinion.

 

[Basman]

Meat-eaters VS vegans is structurally the same as Atheists VS Christians.

[Schizophonia]

1 minute ago, Basman said:

I don't like how you assume my intentions. I haven't actually said anything about the merits of veganism or meat-eating. I just have a different understanding of what survival is.

If anything, it's dishonest to assume intent over focusing on the quality of arguments.

That is a prime example of survival actually. I guarantee that the average serial rapists has all sorts of rationalizations about how women deserve it, etc.

Ethics and survival are two different and often opposing things. Ethics are limitations to one's selfishness. But ethics are also survival to a certain extent, as they are culturally informed and socially regulated. For example, sex slavery is abhorrent in western countries but completely normal and expected in Mauritania. People would look at you weird if you didn't keep slaves, like how big businesses are expected to screw over customers and steal wages and would get sued by their investors if they didn't. Ethics seem to have certain universality for humans at least, but I'm not completely sure and if to what extent.

Also, "validity is an inherently lingual notion. Tigers don't give a shit about "validity". In the context of survival "validity" is just an opinion.

 

Ethics is fundamentally a delusion; only power relations are tangible phenomena.
Women are protected because they or their loved ones pay taxes, because the community has a pragmatic interest in ensuring their survival and well-being.

There is a social contract.

[AION]

28 minutes ago, Kuba Powiertowski said:

So killing a human child is the same for you as chopping a carrot. Same equation. I think that you are at least very immature. You want to impress some girls here how masculine you are, or what?  Internet has this downside that everyone can say anything here, even pretend to be an alfa predator and ceo of earth. Far enough. From my experience such types like you should be tested in real, proper street fight against other human mammal. Some experienced ultra football fanatic for example. May be your weight and size but I bet that could be much smaller.

 

Why would I eat human flesh? That doesn't even make sense lmao

[AION]

Not so long ago there was this guy who created this thread and he said he couldn't slaughter his chickens anymore and fell onto the ground and cried. This is mental illness bro. I don't see a lion crying because it killed a chicken and start flipping some toxic vegan burgers lmao. As long as there is no good, non-toxic meat options, it is ok to eat it without shame. And when the tech comes along I would be happy to switch over to 3d organic meat when it is mainstream. 

Edited Thursday at 12:13 PM by AION

[Kuba Powiertowski]

@Schizophonia I would prefer if people who spend as much time sitting on their asses in front of a computer as some here, didn't theorize as much about survival, killing etc. Watch Nikita Mikhalkov's movie - Urga, Close to Eden. Many indigenous peoples kill animals to survive while showing respect for life and nature, of which they are a part. And I guarantee you that they distinguish between mowing the lawn and killing a mosquito, and killing a mosquito from killing a calf. Only modern people, often unfortunately young, who are detached from reality, who think they have eaten all the wisdom, write such nonsense. It is often impossible to read this theorizing, saturated with cheap intellectualism.

[NewKidOnTheBlock]

It is an illusion to think that you don't need to eat X food for survival anymore. Allowed to remain by existence of globalism (food delivery from around the world) + advances in agriculture. And the thing is, even today, things can still go south in that regard and we can end up starving again. It is therefore wise to have some well-fed and healthy chicken and/or fish in reserve, just in case, whatever your dietary choice is. I doubt I'd have too much moral qualms about killing fish and chicken myself, as due to their anatomy, they can be killed rather quickly and painlessly. The same way I wouldn't have too much moral qualms about stepping on insect

[AION]

Sub conscious dialogue/battle between vegans and non vegans is this: vegans have this subconscious shame to be alive and project it on everybody to cloak their shame to be alive. There is nothing wrong to stay alive at the expense of earth. Just you being alive totally destroys the environment and we all have to accept this fact. Just eating the metaphorical banana and two avocados, falling on your knees and crying for the chickens and doing all these virtue signalling is not changing this visceral and ruthless fact of survival.

Edited Thursday at 12:22 PM by AION

[Kuba Powiertowski]

@AION mental illness is not to see the difference between a plant and a mammal. I call it this way because I assume you have finished primary school at least. But this is not even the case of education. It is something that everyone who is sane, feels. It's natural. It is obvious.

[Kuba Powiertowski]

@AION it comes from direct experience and interaction with real world. And it starts from early childhood.

[AION]

2 minutes ago, Kuba Powiertowski said:

@AION mental illness is not to see the difference between a plant and a mammal. I call it this way because I assume you have finished primary school at least. But this is not even the case of education. It is something that everyone who is sane, feels. It's natural. It is obvious.

Survival is ruthless. I know a lot of farmers and they have to kill tons of animals to create your vegan products. You are totally unconscious to it. One way or another your existence ends the existence of another. Back in the day it was to kill that deer to feed your kids. And now those animals still get killed but it is not in your sight so you think it is not happening. 

By the way, for people who want to read that bizarre thread about the chicken slaughtering it is here:

 

[Kuba Powiertowski]

@AION If read my first post in this topic you would notice that I'm very aware of those facts you write. I think we have some fundamental misunderstanding here, on many levels, but I have better things to do that explaing the difference between black and white. So forgive me, goodbye. And pray that I am not around when you, dear friend, or another alpha predator mistakes a dog or someone's mother for parsley.

[AION]

@Kuba Powiertowskiyou go back to your knees, praying to your chicken gods then

[Something Funny]

41 minutes ago, AION said:

Why would I eat human flesh? That doesn't even make sense lmao

Why are you avoiding the question? Whether you would eat it is irrelevant. He is asking you if you see chopping off human head the same as chopping a carrot, since "plants are also alive" abd there is no difference between killing a plant or killing an animal.

[Schizophonia]

41 minutes ago, Kuba Powiertowski said:

@Schizophonia I would prefer if people who spend as much time sitting on their asses in front of a computer as some here,

didn't theorize as much about survival, killing etc. Watch Nikita Mikhalkov's movie - Urga, Close to Eden. Many indigenous peoples kill animals to survive while showing respect for life and nature, of which they are a part. And I guarantee you that they distinguish between mowing the lawn and killing a mosquito, and killing a mosquito from killing a calf. Only modern people, often unfortunately young, who are detached from reality, who think they have eaten all the wisdom, write such nonsense. It is often impossible to read this theorizing, saturated with cheap intellectualism.

You do what you want.

[AION]

6 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

Why are you avoiding the question? Whether you would eat it is irrelevant. He is asking you if you see chopping off human head the same as chopping a carrot, since "plants are also alive" abd there is no difference between killing a plant or killing an animal.

That is my whole point. Humans don't fall in the category "animal". It is such a bizarre question that it is insane to answer it.

[Something Funny]

@AION okay your logic is that there is no difference between plants and animals hence there is no reason for you to feel bad about killing them. But humans are something entirely different.

Makes sense /s

Totally not biased, lol.

So what is the significant difference between humans and plants that doesn't exist between animals and plants?

[AION]

@Something Funny I didn’t say I didn’t feel bad for them. It is a necessary evil for survival. Most vegans don’t get how life/survival is for most of mankind. They don’t have access to vitamin pills, blood test, free time and money for expertise nor energy to go on their knees and cry for chickens. Heck even with all these resources, most vegans fail with their diet. The gaslighting has to stop. I’m done with this thread either way . 

Edited Thursday at 01:12 PM by AION

[Schizophonia]

11 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

@AION okay your logic is that there is no difference between plants and animals hence there is no reason for you to feel bad about killing them. But humans are something entirely different.

Makes sense /s

Totally not biased, lol.

So what is the significant difference between humans and plants that doesn't exist between animals and plants?

Use value.

As with the difference between domestic and farm animals.

You don't want to kill/eat a cat because your brain has learned to classify them as "company."

But an ox will never be your company, so it's obvious to keep them in the "food" category.

A carrot and a chicken have the commonality that they will intuitively be categorized as "food," while a human will be categorized as "comrade," and the law will be there to protect them if it turns out you're a sociopath, if you want to put them in another category that threatens their survival.

There are actually still tribes that eat humans btw, and plenty of people willing to kill other humans for whatever reason.

Edited Thursday at 01:18 PM by Schizophonia

[Something Funny]

5 minutes ago, AION said:

@Something Funny I didn’t say I didn’t feel bad for them. It is a necessary evil for survival. Most vegans don’t get how life/survival is for most of mankind. They don’t have access to vitamin pills, blood test, free time and money for expertise nor energy to go on their knees and cry for chickens. Heck even with all these resources, most vegans fail with their diet. The gaslighting has to stop. I’m done with this thread either way . 

@AIONwhy are you avoiding the question again? Does it hurt to admit that your logic is broken?