What Does Enlightenment Really Mean, Leo?

[shree]

Hi @Leo Gura

Before starting this work, I thought I had a pretty clear idea of what enlightenment meant for a human.

But after dozens of awakenings, the concept now seems laughable to me. I have no clue what these “enlightened teachers” actually mean when they say they've reached enlightenment.

I’ve reclaimed my authenticity, placed truth at the center of my life, and started building from scratch at the age of 33. Not more, not less.

So my question is: Why does the idea of enlightenment now seem more childish with every awakening I experience? Is the idea of achieving enlightenment just a trap designed to keep us dreaming?

What is enlightenment, really?

After you finish rolling around on your scooter, I hope you can take a minute to share your perspective.

Thanks in advance.

[Sugarcoat]

How are your enlightenment experiences? What where they caused by?

[shree]

In the beginning, I had some strong 5-MeO-DMT trips that opened me up, but they didn’t feel directly useful. Since then, I’ve become super sensitive. Just a little weed or a tiny bit of any psychedelic sends me deep.

Recently, though, the biggest insights happened while sober. I clearly felt infinity here, in normal everyday life. No big show, just a quiet collapse of what I thought was real.

Still, I honestly don’t know what to call those moments. “Enlightenment” feels like a cartoon word compared to what I experienced.

[Sugarcoat]

@shree do you feel taking psychedelics helped you later have those moments sober?

Was it a collapse of your sense of self? 

[shree]

18 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

@shree do you feel taking psychedelics helped you later have those moments sober?

Yes.

19 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

Was it a collapse of your sense of self? 

As for the “sense of self,” I am not sure focusing on it helps. Chasing definitions often blocks real insight.

[Sugarcoat]

3 minutes ago, shree said:

Yes.

As for the “sense of self,” I am not sure focusing on it helps. Chasing definitions often blocks real insight.

How is that chasing definitions. I just asked because the sense of self is the sense of duality so if you realized infinity that seems to include some kind of seeing through/collapse (can be temporary) of the self. In my little experience . Like when I took 5 Meo the boundary between me and the rest got blurred 

Edited Wednesday at 07:35 PM by Sugarcoat

[shree]

Yeah, that kind of boundary collapse happened too. But my process wasn’t really based on that idea. Words like “collapse of self” feel too small to describe what’s actually going on.

[Sugarcoat]

Just now, shree said:

Yeah, that kind of boundary collapse happened too. But my process wasn’t really based on that idea. Words like “collapse of self” feel too small to describe what’s actually going on.

Yea there could be various forms of awakenings. I am just sometimes interested in hearing people describe them more closely (if it’s possible) to see if I can draw parallels to my own experiences 

[Leo Gura]

@shree That's why I've stopped using the enlightenment word.

It's hard to know what people mean by it exactly. They seem to use it in different ways while acting as if there is only one binary state called enlightenment. I do not subscribe to this view of Consciousness.

From what I gather, mostly what they mean is loss of the sense of an ego self. The no-self realization.

But to me that is just a small aspect of Awakening.

Keep in mind that people can use these terms in different ways. So you always want to drill the user of the word down on what exactly they mean by it. Don't assume. Force them to spell out the phenomenology of that they mean. What does enlightenment feel like for them? That will give you a better idea.

Edited Wednesday at 07:47 PM by Leo Gura

[shree]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's hard to know what people mean by it exactly. They seem to use it in different ways while acting as if there is only one binary state called enlightenment. I do not subscribe to this view of Consciousness.

Yes, there’s clearly way more depth than most of them are pointing to.

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

From what I gather, mostly what they mean is loss of the sense of an ego self. The no-self realization.

But to me that is just a small aspect of Awakening.

“No-self” feels like level 1 spirituality at this point. But I get why people are drawn to teachers with slow robotic voices. It feels authoritative, even when it’s sometimes just surface.

 

11 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Keep in mind that people can use these terms in different ways. So you always want to drill the user of the word down on what exactly they mean by it. Don't assume. Force them to spell out the phenomenology of that they mean. What does enlightenment feel like for them? That will give you a better idea.

Appreciate the reminder... “Enlightenment” sounds objective but means wildly different things to different people.

 

Thanks!

[Davino]

15 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

From what I gather, mostly what they mean is loss of the sense of an ego self. The no-self realization.

I'd add the word permanent. The permanent dissolution of the separate self.

[Sugarcoat]

No self realization, or self dissolution, (I write them separately because maybe it’s possible to realize no self without dissolving the self, it seems like two things because in my case for example I’ve dissolved a lot of my self but haven’t realized no self) especially permanent, is pretty fucking radical . Let’s not pretend it’s not

Edited Wednesday at 08:04 PM by Sugarcoat

[shree]

Nah, nothing too radical. Just lying on cold concrete, merging with the universe, dissolving into cosmic oatmeal. Basic stuff.


 

 

[Sugarcoat]

5 minutes ago, shree said:

Nah, nothing too radical. Just lying on cold concrete, merging with the universe, dissolving into cosmic oatmeal. Basic stuff.


 

 

Just everyday stuff for the common person

[shree]

Yeah, nothing fancy. Just dissolving into the void before morning coffee.

[Eskilon]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

The no-self realization.

For you, that's the same thing as realizing Sunyata(emptiness)? Or do you think there`s a difference?

[shree]

I see no-self realization as sudden knowing that all that ever happened came solely from your mind.

 

But realizing emptiness/nothingness is deeper. It reveals not just the illusion of the "you", but the illusory nature of all reality itself.

Edited Wednesday at 09:03 PM by shree

[ExploringReality]

@Leo Gura Enlightenment is an Awakening, but Awakening isn't confined to enlightenment.

There are degrees, flavors, depths, textures, and dimensions of Consciousness.
This is why someone in a deep DMT state, a seasoned Zen master, a psychotic episode, or an ordinary egoic state are all “conscious,” but not remotely the same level of realization, clarity, or understanding.

Saying “all is consciousness” is like saying “all is water” but water can be a puddle, a tsunami, a mist, or an ocean trench. Peter Ralston, Leo Gura, Jed McKenna,they cut through the noise with radical epistemic clarity. Contrast that with watered down pop spirituality where "enlightenment" means being calm, nice, spiritual, or high vibe. Awakening is like Leo said, a mountain range. Where some valleys are deeper than some peaks. And some mountains make others look like hills. 

[Hojo]

You see the man in the mirror

[Yimpa]

3 minutes ago, Hojo said:

You see the man in the mirror

I love to enlighten kids with my scientifically proven method!

 

3 minutes ago, Hojo said:

You see the man in the mirror

 

Edited Wednesday at 09:57 PM by Yimpa