Leo, do you think that Democrats should support right-wing economic policies?

[Hardkill]

This might seem like a dumb or crazy question—especially considering your political beliefs and mine—but if the country elects Trump 2.0 and embraces neoliberalism on steroids in 2024, with America still stuck in toxic Stage Orange mania, what then?

Do you think the Democratic Party should start supporting more and more of Trump’s and the GOP’s policies—like more tax cuts for the rich, further deregulation of the financial system and environmental protections, and cuts to Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and so on?

Or is that not what you are saying or suggesting?

Edited May 5 by Hardkill

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Hardkill said:

Do you think the Democratic Party should start supporting more and more of Trump’s and the GOP’s policies—like more tax cuts for the rich, further deregulation of the financial system and environmental protections, and cuts to Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and so on?

Hell no.

Dems need an economic populism agenda. The whole Dem agenda should be about fixing income inequality, ending corporate domination, busting monopolies, and ending corporate lobbying.

But Dems should not raise taxes on the bottom 80%.

Edited May 5 by Leo Gura

[Hardkill]

31 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Hell no.

Dems need an economic populism agenda. The whole Dem agenda should be about fixing income inequality and corporate domination.

Okay, good! I'm glad you're actually saying that.

Obviously, the Democratic Party isn’t going to become the party of Bernie Sanders or AOC anytime soon, and we’ll have to wait until 2026 or 2028 to see how significant a shift they actually make toward economic populism. Still, it’s encouraging that the party does seem to be heading in that direction.

And just because a majority of people voted for Trump and his hyper-capitalistic MAGA agenda in 2024 and America is still so attached to toxic stage Orange doesn’t mean the Democratic Party should throw up its hands and say, “Alright, we give up on progressivism and economic populism because apparently the American people don’t want that. We get it now—the era of big government is over, and from now on, we’re going to give bipartisan legitimacy to the economic philosophy of Trump and the MAGA Republicans,” much like how Bill Clinton’s “Third Way” politics in the ’90s essentially triangulated Reaganomics.

So then, is the larger point you’ve been making that even if Democrats run on a more “progressive” and economically populist agenda in the coming years, those efforts would still be trapped within a deeper, systemic stage of development—namely, neoliberal capitalism?

31 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

But Dems should not raise taxes on the bottom 80%.

That would be political suicide for Democratic party. Yes, we would need to do that to make something like Medicare for All (M4A) work, but of course we know that most Americans are never going to go for that for the foreseeable future.

Edited May 5 by Hardkill

[Terell Kirby]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

The whole Dem agenda should be about fixing income inequality, ending corporate domination, busting monopolies, and ending corporate lobbying.

Bernie baby

[aurum]

9 minutes ago, Terell Kirby said:

Bernie baby

He's too old for president though. He needs to pass the torch, potentially to AOC.

[Terell Kirby]

13 minutes ago, aurum said:

He's too old for president though. He needs to pass the torch, potentially to AOC.

Yes-probably our best bet.

Neither Bernie or AOC will advance any progressive agenda so long as corporate lobbying is influencing Dem & Repub policy, there are zero signs of any progress there-and a Trump administration only prolongs things.

Taxing wealth is so unpopular in American political culture these days- its a true shame. Feels like every powerful person is out to destroy the middle class by any means necessary.

Edited May 6 by Terell Kirby

[Hardkill]

17 minutes ago, aurum said:

He's too old for president though. He needs to pass the torch, potentially to AOC.

I don't see how AOC can win the Democratic nomination when too many Democratic voters including older and more moderate voters are terrified of anything or anybody who identifies herself as some kind of socialist and doesn't run enough on traditional American cultural values. Also, after Harris lost in 2024, I don't think now is the time for the Democratic party to put up a woman of color as the presidential nominee any time soon.

[Husseinisdoingfine]

I do wish though that Democrats, would take a more Clinton-ite path and begin to seriously care about the budget deficit and national debt.

[aurum]

7 minutes ago, Terell Kirby said:

Neither Bernie or AOC will advance any progressive agenda so long as corporate lobbying is influencing Dem & Repub policy, there are zero signs of any progress there-and a Trump administration only prolongs things.

Taxing wealth is so unpopular in American political culture these days- its a true shame. Feels like every powerful person is out to destroy the middle class by any means necessary.

That's why you need populism and people-power. The corporations and elite aren't going to hand it over nicely, you need to pressure them like FDR.

The potential good news is that the economy may be so shit after Trump that people will be clamoring for economic populism. Similar to after the Great Depression.

[aurum]

1 minute ago, Hardkill said:

I don't see how AOC can win the Democratic nomination when too many Democratic voters including older and more moderate voters are terrified of anything or anybody who identifies herself as some kind of socialist and doesn't run enough on traditional American cultural values. Also, after Harris lost in 2024, I don't think now is the time for the Democratic party to put up a woman of color as the presidential nominee any time soon.

I kind of agree.

As much as I like AOC, I'm skittish on her chances of winning a general at this point.

We'll see how the next couple years play out.

[Terell Kirby]

9 minutes ago, aurum said:

That's why you need populism and people-power.

Well .. this thinking is what got Trump elected.

Populism only works for a citizenry who isn’t idiotic enough to vote for a corrupt narcissist like Trump, thinking he will solve any real issues of wealth inequality.

Americans do not deserve, nor are they ready for progressive populism. We need to get real about this.

Edited May 6 by Terell Kirby

[aurum]

Just now, Terell Kirby said:

Well .. this thinking is what got Trump elected.

Populism only works for a citizenry who isn’t  idiotic enough to think voting for corrupt narcissist like Trump will solve real issues of wealth inequality.

American do not deserve, nor are they ready for progressive populism. We need to get real about this

What's your alternative suggestion then?

[Terell Kirby]

Just now, aurum said:

What's your alternative suggestion then?

no easy solutions to mass political ignorance of American voting bloc. Much of it has to do with how corrupt mass media / social media is in shaping epistemology and political discourse. Mis information will only get worse under Trump 

[Lyubov]

They need left wing economic populism, reign in corruption (lobbying) and unregulated capitalism, and common sense reforms with guns and whatnot. They then need to drop all the LGBTQ stuff, feminism, identity politics. All the try hard ideologies they push. Stick to centrist identity ideology that is just very neutral and welcomes anyone but isn’t pushing some whiny narrative about 80 different genders or trying to to pretend a fat person isn’t fat or a grown man in a dress should complete in women’s sports. But of course they make the culture wars the front and center stuff they talk about. 

[aurum]

1 minute ago, Terell Kirby said:

no easy solutions to mass political ignorance of American voting bloc. Much of it has to do with how corrupt mass media / social media is in shaping epistemology and political discourse. Mis information will only get worse under Trump 

I think you may be underestimating how fickle people can be if the economy gets bad enough.

Trump is coasting on the complacency that comes from inheriting a pretty good economy. 

[Terell Kirby]

6 minutes ago, Lyubov said:

They then need to drop all the LGBTQ stuff, feminism, identity politics. All the try hard ideologies they push. 

Conservatives would like to fear monger you about these things to distract you from their bullshit and corruption. Don’t make the mistake of falling into right wing narratives about such things. Not all of it is identity politics.

Right wingers place more emphasis into identity politics than liberals/leftist- be it in the form of white Christian nationalism, being a true patriot, fighting against immigrants, the nuclear family, etc

The whole MAGA brand is based in identity politics. This is all crude and distasteful stuff

Edited May 6 by Terell Kirby

[Terell Kirby]

4 minutes ago, aurum said:

I think you may be underestimating how fickle people can be if the economy gets bad enough.

Trump is coasting on the complacency that comes from inheriting a pretty good economy. 

Maybe. But you have to remember most people voted for Trump ideological grounds, economic variables are often secondary.

Hallmark of low perspective:

 

[Raze]

That’s already what they have been doing.

They supported trade deals like NAFTA. They didn’t raise the federal minimum wage. They didn’t pass Medicare for all or even a public option.

Biden did some stuff but most of those programs ended as Covid winded down.

Edited May 6 by Raze

[aurum]

5 minutes ago, Terell Kirby said:

Maybe. But you have to remember most people voted for Trump ideological grounds, economic variables are often secondary.

Hallmark of low perspective:

But low perspectives are often hypocritical, fickle and ultimately rationalizations for survival. They are ideological, but they are not ideologically coherent because they do not value truth. 

They will flip if it benefits their survival. And economics is often the most direct link to survival.

[Hardkill]

32 minutes ago, Raze said:

That’s already what they have been doing.

They supported trade deals like NAFTA. They didn’t raise the federal minimum wage. They didn’t pass Medicare for all or even a public option.

Biden did some stuff but most of those programs ended as Covid winded down.

Only the ARP ended in terms of the legislation he passed with Congress.