India-Pakistan Conflict Mega-Thread

[The Crocodile]

Last week there was a terrorist attack against non-Muslim Indians in the Kashmir region.

Now India is retaliating. They have opened dams to flood much of Pakistan-administered Kashmir and have started light bombing of the region. There's already been some firing on the border.

There have been mass resignation and desertion in the Pakistani army.

For more context the Pakistanis have already been dealing with internal unrest over their jailed prime minister Imran Khan and rebellion sponsored by the Indians such as the Balochistan Liberation Army which relatively recently killed and held hostage some Pakistani soldiers and repelled the Pakistani army.

India will likely do a proper invasion soon.

 

The problem is that both countries have nukes, so this would break the taboo of nuclear powers not engaging with each other directly.

Both countries are receiving newer military technologies to prepare.

[Raze]

Last time India did a small strike and Pakistan did a smaller strike, then when India tried again Pakistan shot a plane down and caught the pilot derailing it, and things cooled down.

Currently I don’t think either side wants a full war, but India has major pressure to respond, Pakistan will have pressure to respond back, and apparently America isn’t doing much to lead negotiations and avert it. So it could spiral, but probably not likely.

Indias main threat was leaving the water treaty, those rivers stopping could theoretically stop 80% of the water access Pakistan has. But that wouldn’t happen instantly as they would need time to build dams. 
 

Really it’s up to China to involve itself more which will depend on how much it cares about averting a crisis with its ally Pakistan.  

Edited April 30 by Raze

[Husseinisdoingfine]

 

[zazen]

Heating up tonight. 

[Husseinisdoingfine]

It’s really heating up right now.

[kray]

As someone with family in India, I can sympathize with the pro Israel side. 

[zazen]

What's missing in the discourse is that ''India's pressure to respond'' is valid - but it responding to Pakistan by loose association to the Pahalgam massacre is invalid. This is simply misdirected vengeance and collective punishment - similar to Israel (many parallels between the two). India is automatically attributing and projecting the massacre onto Pakistan without proof, and denying any neutral investigation into it which Pakistan has called for (similar to Israel again). This is why even the US and international community have denied blaming Pakistan and not bought the Indian narrative.

India ''retaliating'' by weaponizing water flowing to Pakistan is an act of collective punishment *cough Israel* on 250 million people - that just makes it look foolish and bloodthirsty. And then attacking not only the disputed territory of Kashmir but Pakistan itself, breaching their sovereignty - is massively escalatory. 

Vaush said it right - if Mexican cartels launched a deadly attack in America, would Washington bomb Mexico City? Would it dam the Rio Grande and starve Mexicans of water? No. Because that would be an act of war, not justice. Another parallel is Egypt, Gaza and Israel. If Egypt may have sympathizers or smugglers aiding groups like Hamas - should Israel attack Egypt and collectively punish over a 100 million Egyptians by blocking the Nile river? Corruption, negligence, or complicity by some officials doesn’t make the entire state guilty.

There’s a difference between a country harboring extremist elements - often non-state actors operating in the shadows - and a state itself conducting military aggression or terrorism across borders. Pakistan has been dealing with the run-off of the US backed Mujahideen war machine against the Soviets, fueled by Saudi Wahhabi ideology. It has no incentive for instability - to let these elements proliferate, let alone work with them to gain what? India on the other hand, along with the US, have every incentive in destabilizing Pakistan's growth and China's BRI project in Pakistan. That falls under US's larger strategy of containing China.

When Chinese nationals working on BRI projects in Pakistan are killed by Balochi separatists - does China attack or starve Pakistan? When the Balochistan Liberation Army (separatists) hijacked Jaffar Express holding over 300 people hostage just over a month ago - does Pakistan attack India for loose association with that group?

When a government launches military strikes or cuts off vital water supplies, that’s not a non-state actor but state policy ie an act of war. Blurring the line between shadowy actors and sovereign governments is a dangerous game. If that standard is applied universally, every country on Earth becomes a valid target.

Edited May 7 by zazen

[The Crocodile]

@Husseinisdoingfine Would you be in favor of taking this as a chance to reunify India, if we knew there would be no nuke exchange?

[zazen]

13 hours ago, kray said:

As someone with family in India, I can sympathize with the pro Israel side. 

- Like Israel, both occupy disputed territories for over 70 years, denying people within those territories self-determination, both majority Muslim. Both refuse to honor UN resolutions (solutions). A plebiscite in Kashmir's case, an end to occupation in Israel's.

- Like Israel, both engage in cross-border violence. India assassinating a Sikh activist in Canada and attempting to assassinate another in the USA, which the US foiled during Biden's term.

- Like Israel, both are led by ethno-nationalist supremacist ideologies (Hindutva and Zionism) with visions of a greater pre-Islamic era of 'Akhand Bharat' and 'Ezret Israel'. Both view indigenous Muslims living there for centuries as foreign invaders with no right to be there.

- Like Israel, both justify collective punishment and block neutral investigations into attacks - weaponizing guilt by association as a tool of domination and a form of domestic political currency to appease their voter base frothing at the mouth.

- Like Israel, both have elevated extremists into positions of state power - not despite their extremism, but because of it. Ben Gvir was a designated terrorist.  Modi was nicknamed the “Butcher of Gujarat” who presided over a pogrom killing thousands of Muslims and was barred from the US and UK for over a decade before he became politically prominent in the world's largest democracy.

- Lastly, on that note, just like Israel, both love to flaunt that they are ''Democracies'' - as if your political system says anything about the elevation and evolution of your people. As if the way a nation organizes its power says anything about the way people are treated under and beyond it.

Check out Sadhguru getting political in support of this “defensive” action - aligning with the Hindutva state narrative. It’s equivalent to a peace loving Eckhart Tolle cheering on a US airstrike on a Mexican cartel on Mexican soil.

Edited May 7 by zazen

[Husseinisdoingfine]

3 hours ago, zazen said:

 

I'm not surprised by this, Sadhuru has met with the current Indian Prime Minister before.

Rajneesh was the only one with the correct position. 

 

[Jodistrict]

Here is a good video showing the media bias whitewashing Islamic terrorism.

 

 

[BlueOak]

There will be a certain level of conflict. We can't ignore that we have a far right government in India and a Military dictatorship in Pakistan. India has threatened the water of Pakistan and escalated in Kashmir previously, Pakistan have killed people in India, and now India has launched missiles. Major countries around the world have already lowered the bar for invasion and set a precedent for doing it repeatedly, as well as pumping out more war industry to assist it (excess arms and production or the ability to produce arms) The civilian industries such as media or the collective mind of each nation and individual expect it. Along with electing leaders that represent strong stances against threats matching that expectation or fear.

Each war makes more war likely.

They are already above what they've been at before, with the current governments further right than ever. 

The wrong missile hits the wrong person, the wrong commander or official gets killed, that'll be it. I want to say it won't go into a full scale war, but I can't call this one; its too close to being either. The only thing is the nukes, it may pull them back, it may not.

Edited May 7 by BlueOak

[Raze]

30 minutes ago, BlueOak said:

Pakistan have killed people in India,

India provided no proof the Pakistani government was involved in the attack 

[Husseinisdoingfine]

2 minutes ago, Raze said:

India provided no proof the Pakistani government was involved in the attack 

The problem is that Pakistan is notorious for the creation and supplying of terrorist groups to destabilize India. These recent attacks by India only targeted terrorist infrastructure. 

[danniel]

16 hours ago, zazen said:

Check out Sadhguru getting political in support of this “defensive” action - aligning with the Hindutva state narrative. It’s equivalent to a peace loving Eckhart Tolle cheering on a US airstrike on a Mexican cartel on Mexican soil.

In midst of a corrupt powerful body in control of an entire nation, he has to support it. I don't listen to him personally. few days ago Leo shared an insight how self changing for a person in a powerful position is difficult and gave example of Trump. How he has been put as a head to serve a much larger group of people who are corrupt and have sold their soul for power and greed. I believe this is similar to that example. Anyone strong personality of India could be neutral but they have to pick a side now for how much grip one group has over an entire democracy.

P.s. There might be many more factors to him saying all that but i feel like this is a deeper and partial aspect of saying all that.

And i Know it for a fact because in the states where the right winged party has 90%+ winning rate. A citizen will be lynched/ harassed/ostracized if they ever criticize the ruling party in any form. Or even get taken legal actions, in some handful cases, in doing so

[BlueOak]

9 hours ago, Raze said:

India provided no proof the Pakistani government was involved in the attack 

 That's why I said Pakistan, not the government of Pakistan.

In the mind of the average person you won't see a difference. That's why they say America, not the government of America for example. Or Russia not the government of Russia, the distinctions are not made in the general populace, thus their elected leaders either are of that mind directly or have to respond to that.

I usually go along with it, then every so often I restate that most people just want their basic needs met, they are the same the world over. 6 Human needs conversations, etc.

https://www.tonyrobbins.com/blog/do-you-need-to-feel-significant
https://www.earlyyears.tv/the-6-human-needs/
https://tealswan.com/resources/articles/relationships-and-the-six-human-needs

Then it just becomes a matter of how to satisfy those needs with the least amount of suffering globally, and if we want to take that even further, the most amount of joy/love/gratitude, but that's not usually the conversation we are having.

Edited May 8 by BlueOak

[PurpleTree]

Once met an ex general or something of the Pakistani army.

Very nice smart guy he used to give me some green smoothies.

The end.

[Crazy_ball]

Pakistan finally getting a taste of their own medicine. 

[chess_king]

On 5/7/2025 at 1:53 PM, zazen said:

- Like Israel, both occupy disputed territories for over 70 years, denying people within those territories self-determination, both majority Muslim. Both refuse to honor UN resolutions (solutions). A plebiscite in Kashmir's case, an end to occupation in Israel's.

- Like Israel, both engage in cross-border violence. India assassinating a Sikh activist in Canada and attempting to assassinate another in the USA, which the US foiled during Biden's term.

- Like Israel, both are led by ethno-nationalist supremacist ideologies (Hindutva and Zionism) with visions of a greater pre-Islamic era of 'Akhand Bharat' and 'Ezret Israel'. Both view indigenous Muslims living there for centuries as foreign invaders with no right to be there.

- Like Israel, both justify collective punishment and block neutral investigations into attacks - weaponizing guilt by association as a tool of domination and a form of domestic political currency to appease their voter base frothing at the mouth.

- Like Israel, both have elevated extremists into positions of state power - not despite their extremism, but because of it. Ben Gvir was a designated terrorist.  Modi was nicknamed the “Butcher of Gujarat” who presided over a pogrom killing thousands of Muslims and was barred from the US and UK for over a decade before he became politically prominent in the world's largest democracy.

- Lastly, on that note, just like Israel, both love to flaunt that they are ''Democracies'' - as if your political system says anything about the elevation and evolution of your people. As if the way a nation organizes its power says anything about the way people are treated under and beyond it.

Check out Sadhguru getting political in support of this “defensive” action - aligning with the Hindutva state narrative. It’s equivalent to a peace loving Eckhart Tolle cheering on a US airstrike on a Mexican cartel on Mexican soil.

well said cook those brain dead racists 

[chess_king]

Let them use nuclear weapons lets get into ww3 and nuke the whole world fuck this world its so full of shit lets die