Non duality as a part of daily life

[Sugarcoat]

Something I have reflected upon is that I think for the average person non duality is actually part of their daily life but it’s just not noticed. 
 

I don’t include myself in this group of “average people” because I’m different so I don’t share this experience, which I won’t go into here but anyways….

I talked a little on reddit about this and someone said :

”Your sense of self does go away, but unless you’re LOOKING for it, you probably wouldn’t notice it. It’s very hard to notice the ABSENCE of something”. 
 

Basically I believe that the self is not constantly in the awareness of the average person, but it reappears often enough and quickly enough for it to seem like it always exists. And as the person said, it’s hard to notice ABSENCE.

Those moments of absence are for example FLOW STATES that a person can get into, for example if they’re playing a video game. It could be by being IMMERSED in something, like watching a movie, or listening deeply to a lecture in school. Basically states where we can get so immersed in something outside ourselves, that we forget ourselves, we are no longer aware of ourselves. But it’s like we don’t NOTICE this. We don’t notice how it’s a non dual state. Or is it? Am I wrong here? What you think? Do you think non duality is a part of life for the average person but it’s not noticed/recognized?

Edited Wednesday at 01:00 PM by Sugarcoat

[Schizophonia]

11 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

FLOW STATES

Yes, that's why anxiolytics like Buspiron or certain antidepressants have a similar pharmacology, but less potent, than 5 MeO DMT.

[Sugarcoat]

1 minute ago, Schizophonia said:

Yes, that's why anxiolytics like Buspiron or certain antidepressants have a similar pharmacology, but less potent, than 5 MeO DMT.

Anxiolytics meaning to combat anxiety? 
 

So they put you in flow states?

5 Meo dmt seems to me not related to flow states but it’s like a direct attack on the structure of the self

[Schizophonia]

Just now, Sugarcoat said:

Anxiolytics meaning to combat anxiety? 

Yes

Just now, Sugarcoat said:

 

So they put you in flow states?

 

5 Meo dmt seems to me not related to flow states but it’s like a direct attack on the structure of the self

Even if it's not conscious, the compulsion to generate repetitive mental discourse, unconsciously to maintain one's sense of self, is very energy-consuming.
Anxiety isn't necessarily "stomach knots" or stress; it's an excessive inclination to invest in one's self-concept in general, with both positive symptoms (rumination, anger, stress, OCD, etc.) and negative/indirect symptoms (immobility, fatigue, apathy unless you do extreme things, etc.).

Flow is about dissolving one's sense of self; there's no need for video games; even walking in nature, with enough presence, you can return to being a child and enjoy feeling the warm sun, seeing the landscape, seeing the leaves rustling in the breeze, smelling the fragrant wind, having a vision/flashback because of the scent, etc. And when the conversation returns, empathy returns, and we once again need manic things (fast food, gossip, spirituality, politics) (jk) to alternate between pleasure and boredom.

To return to 5 MeO DMT, I haven't used it like that, but I have a friend who really likes to use it in small doses for this reason.
For him, it's almost similar to cannabis, but without the loss of connection.

[Sugarcoat]

3 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

Even if it's not conscious, the compulsion to generate repetitive mental discourse, unconsciously to maintain one's sense of self, is very energy-consuming.

I have a lot of self referential thoughts. Be it imagination of myself, or other thoughts relating to self. I found it to be energy draining in the past in particular when my self was denser. Nowadays it’s just what my brain does while it feels pretty neutral to my energy and anxiety level.
 

 

3 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

Anxiety isn't necessarily "stomach knots" or stress; it's an excessive inclination to invest in one's self-concept in general, with both positive symptoms (rumination, anger, stress, OCD, etc.) and negative/indirect symptoms (immobility, fatigue, apathy unless you do extreme things, etc.).

 

Connects to my previous point.

3 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

Flow is about dissolving one's sense of self; there's no need for video games; even walking in nature, with enough presence, you can return to being a child and enjoy feeling the warm sun, seeing the landscape, seeing the leaves rustling in the breeze, smelling the fragrant wind, having a vision/flashback because of the scent, etc. And when the conversation returns, empathy returns, and we once again need manic things (fast food, gossip, spirituality, politics) (jk) to alternate between pleasure and boredom.

 

You can also be in a kind of “flow with yourself”, it’s very inward it’s like if you’re expressing yourself. That includes your sense of self in the flow state. 
 

“Presence” to me can mean different things. For me to forget myself I’d have to for example be focused on the external world, that could induce “presence”. But it could also mean being the “witness” as some in spiritual circles say. I don’t really know how to do that. I don’t know if it’s the same as the “observer sense”, which is the sense of self. 

3 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

To return to 5 MeO DMT, I haven't used it like that, but I have a friend who really likes to use it in small doses for this reason.
For him, it's almost similar to cannabis, but without the loss of connection.

Does cannabis make you loose connection? What does that even mean? So for him 5 Meo creates a flow state in lower doses by reducing the ego?

Edited Wednesday at 04:50 PM by Sugarcoat

[Salvijus]

Every time someone laughs they experience a universal self for a moment. Every time someone smiles even. So yea, it's pretty common. It's just a question of intensity and degree. A full brakethrough is significantly more profound but fundamentally the same thing. 

Edited Wednesday at 06:57 PM by Salvijus

[Breakingthewall]

When you are a kid you are all time in no dual experience but it's still limited. I think that you have to reach a point of unbearable, alienating, almost psychotic duality to decide to reverse that process. Then, if you reach a non-dual state, like a child, you realize that's not enough. You are no longer a child; you have to go beyond, break the experience, and open yourself to the whole.

No child can do that because they are absolutely immersed in the experience; like an animal, they cannot transcend it. There are natural genetic barriers made of fear that are impossible for a child to break.

[Sugarcoat]

1 hour ago, Salvijus said:

Every time someone laughs they experience a universal self for a moment. Every time someone smiles even. So yea, it's pretty common. It's just a question of intensity and degree. A full brakethrough is significantly more profound but fundamentally the same thing. 

You mean laughter breaks the human ego? To different degrees?

[Sucuk Ekmek]

6 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

 

Basically states where we can get so immersed in something outside ourselves, that we forget ourselves, we are no longer aware of ourselves. But it’s like we don’t NOTICE this. 

This observation feels quite true to me, and I believe it can be dangerous, both for ourselves and for others. When we become completely absorbed in something outside ourselves, it’s as if we are being pulled into an external gravitational field. In that state, we lose awareness of our own presence, our own inner landscape. What’s more troubling is that we don’t even notice this shift. Our attention gets hijacked, and we drift away from the world, and also our own inner grounding.

In our current era, I believe we are living in a kind of permanent flow state; not the healthy, focused kind described in wikipedia, but rather a state of constant immersion in stimuli, distractions, and external narratives. It mimics flow, but lacks rootedness. It’s a form of disembodied engagement that can numb critical awareness.

That’s why I would place self above non-duality. While in a ''positive sense and perhaps in common meaning'' non-duality emphasizes dissolution of boundaries and the merging with the “other,” I believe reclaiming a grounded sense of self is more vital in this time. We need a clear sense of who we are and where we stand before we can afford to dissolve into anything. 

7 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

Do you think non duality is a part of life for the average person but it’s not noticed/recognized?

I think, as long as average person is ''self'' it doesn't matter. Today I didn't ''notice'' any non-duality during my daily routine, in fact for me non duality is a study&practice ground, like actually doing something. 

[Sugarcoat]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

When you are a kid you are all time in no dual experience but it's still limited. I think that you have to reach a point of unbearable, alienating, almost psychotic duality to decide to reverse that process. Then, if you reach a non-dual state, like a child, you realize that's not enough. You are no longer a child; you have to go beyond, break the experience, and open yourself to the whole.

No child can do that because they are absolutely immersed in the experience; like an animal, they cannot transcend it. There are natural genetic barriers made of fear that are impossible for a child to break.

I’m definitely in that psychotic duality hahahahha😂😂😂

Children are in selfless state right? But have limited experience (sense perceptions)? But if they don’t perceive limitations then isn’t that the full non dual?

[Yimpa]

8 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

But if they don’t perceive limitations then isn’t that the full non dual?

I'm gonna become so non dual that I become a sandwhich.

On 4/24/2025 at 0:49 AM, Schizophonia said:

It’s like putting a potato between two slices of bread and calling that a sandwich.

 

[Sugarcoat]

3 minutes ago, Sucuk Ekmek said:

This observation feels quite true to me, and I believe it can be dangerous, both for ourselves and for others. When we become completely absorbed in something outside ourselves, it’s as if we are being pulled into an external gravitational field. In that state, we lose awareness of our own presence, our own inner landscape. What’s more troubling is that we don’t even notice this shift. Our attention gets hijacked, and we drift away from the world, and also our own inner grounding.

In our current era, I believe we are living in a kind of permanent flow state; not the healthy, focused kind described in wikipedia, but rather a state of constant immersion in stimuli, distractions, and external narratives. It mimics flow, but lacks rootedness. It’s a form of disembodied engagement that can numb critical awareness.

 

You are right. We can reach kind of mindless, selfless states through this immersion, but it is to no avail for the average person because they’re not using those states to recognize something beyond their normal state.

It’s different from when someone reaches a mindless, selfless state in for example meditation. That is done with intent and one is looking to reach that mindless state and selfless state and lock it down. It’s also devoid of a bunch of stimulation. In the case of stimulation, yes you’re pretty mindless but it’s like the content you’re consuming is doing the thinking instead of your mind, so it’s still a kind of mind activity. The selfless and mindless state from for example meditation is also grounded and rooted as you mentioned. So it’s higher tier.

7 minutes ago, Sucuk Ekmek said:

 

That’s why I would place self above non-duality. While in a ''positive sense and perhaps in common meaning'' non-duality emphasizes dissolution of boundaries and the merging with the “other,” I believe reclaiming a grounded sense of self is more vital in this time. We need a clear sense of who we are and where we stand before we can afford to dissolve into anything. 

I think, as long as average person is ''self'' it doesn't matter. Today I didn't ''notice'' any non-duality during my daily routine, in fact for me non duality is a study&practice ground, like actually doing something. 

I don’t think one needs a positive sense of self before pursuing non duality. But a grounded and non neurotic one probably helps. Thats only if one desires to pursue non duality. If not, and as long as you’re human with a self, yes it’s a good idea to try to develop a good sense of self, it’s vital in fact as you say

 

[Sugarcoat]

2 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

I'm gonna become so non dual that I become a sandwhich.

 

I’ll eat you then. Enjoy becoming a turd 

[Yimpa]

3 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

I’ll eat you then. Enjoy becoming a turd 

Dim sum

Edited Wednesday at 08:52 PM by Yimpa

[Sugarcoat]

@Yimpa 😂

[Schizophonia]

2 hours ago, Salvijus said:

Every time someone laughs they experience a universal self for a moment. Every time someone smiles even. So yea, it's pretty common. It's just a question of intensity and degree. A full brakethrough is significantly more profound but fundamentally the same thing. 

Laughter is revolutionary eheh.

 

https://www.amisderabelais.org/le-rire_en.html

[Sugarcoat]

Am I really comparing a gamer in his moms basement immersed in his game to non duality 💀💀💀

[Schizophonia]

2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

When you are a kid you are all time in no dual experience but it's still limited. I think that you have to reach a point of unbearable, alienating, almost psychotic duality to decide to reverse that process. Then, if you reach a non-dual state, like a child, you realize that's not enough. You are no longer a child; you have to go beyond, break the experience, and open yourself to the whole.

2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

No child can do that because they are absolutely immersed in the experience; like an animal, they cannot transcend it. There are natural genetic barriers made of fear that are impossible for a child to break.

Contradictory

[Yimpa]

5 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

https://www.amisderabelais.org/le-rire_en.html

Hey, that's me!

[Schizophonia]

2 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

Am I really comparing a gamer in his moms basement immersed in his game to non duality 💀💀💀

Caricature

 

🤨