Duality is so obvious

[Sugarcoat]

23 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

 I would say that more than dissolving the self, what we need to do is dissolve the meaning. When they say the self is illusory and that you are the totality, you remain in a mental framework that you are the experience, the totality, etc. 

That’s how it is for me. Just mental. But I recognize it’s mental. I could not possibly fool myself into thinking I got the real deal. As I said duality is so obvious to me

Edited Monday at 09:20 PM by Sugarcoat

[Sugarcoat]

23 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Btw, that doesn't mean that nothing means anything, just that you want to reach a mental state where nothing means anything. Really from an infinite perspective, nothing means anything, but this is a meaning too. It's enough to be now without meaning for a while, absolute empty of the slightest meaning 

I’ve been in weird states where it was like I understood no meaning, so I can see the value of it.

Isn’t this like being a witness, thoughts are seen for what they are, just appearances , instead of buying into their meaning

[Sugarcoat]

12 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

saying that there is no self is confusing and false, the same as saying there is no meaning. From an infinite perspective, there isn't ; from a finite or relative perspective, there is. Both perspectives are real. If you hit yourself with a hammer, it hurts. Calling that an illusion or unreal is trying to be psychotic without achieving it.

What you're looking for is to be able to place yourself in an infinite or absolute perspective. This isn't achieved by denying the reality of the relative perspective; it's repressive and doesn't work. You have to understand that you're passing from one perspective to another, not that one is real and the other false. If you deny the relative perspective, you achieve nothing because its reality will trap you.

Spot on. Acknowledging the relative doesn’t trap you in it more than you’re already trapped in it. 

[gettoefl]

10 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

Spot on. Acknowledging the relative doesn’t trap you in it more than you’re already trapped in it. 

The relative is my story: my attachment to it, my belief in it, my choice for it #abc

When I withdraw meaning to my story, the relative is no more and the absolute is as it is.

I need seek no meaning from this nor hold onto meaning from that.

[Sugarcoat]

1 hour ago, gettoefl said:

The relative is my story: my attachment to it, my belief in it, my choice for it #abc

When I withdraw meaning to my story, the relative is no more and the absolute is as it is.

I need seek no meaning from this nor hold onto meaning from that.

I don’t know how meaning is when you’re from the absolute pov..

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Sugarcoat said:

I don’t know how meaning is when you’re from the absolute pov..

From an unlimited perspective, it makes no difference whether you're a deformed dwarf whose parents sold him to be tortured in front of an audience of psychopaths or a divine interdimensional demigod. It's absolutely irrelevant. Only substance is something; structure is nothing, since it's one possibility among infinite possibilities. Structure is transparent. There's always a structure, and no structure means anything.

From a relative perspective, the change of state of a subatomic particle has a butterfly effect that creates infinite consequences. Everything has infinite meaning; every thought that appears expands into infinite causes and effects in the totality of infinite interconnected forms.

Unlimited perspective means that all the forms expand in infinity and disappear, but the substance can't dissapear, because the substance is precisely absence of limits. But then, from a relative perspective you realize that there is a movement that must be done, Every breath, every brainwave, goes in a concrete direction. Your life is an infinitely interconnected process that's in motion, like the rest of the whole. It's stupid not to take it seriously. It's like playing in the Wimbledon final. It's just a game, but it's absolutely serious. Not a wrong move, perfect focus, perfect alignment. Anything less is stupid. Like being in the Wimbledon final and starting to chat in the phone. it's not something you would do under any circumstances. Life is the same; it's absolutely serious, but there is a purification process that doesn't happen in one day

One day you realize that a certain behavior is stupid, wrong, and you abandon it. Another day you realize that there are repressed feelings that need to be expressed, and you do it, you find the way. Life shows you the direction you should move, and there comes a point where you begin to see that what happens is part of a process. You surrender to the flow, and the outcome of the action isn't as important as the optimal course of action. You join the flow. That's the only way that I see, the way of: everything is meaningless, it's just a game, nothing matters, doesn't work for me. Everything matter from a relative perspective, nothing matters from a unlimited perspective, but both are real, then you can visit the absolute perspective every day and rest in it, open all the contraction and be one with the total, then back to the ground to do what must be done 

[Schizophonia]

14 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

It’s odd i don’t talk about it anymore outside my family and doctor. Of the more “normal” things I suffer from is emptiness, dullness, apathy, anhedonia, low libido. Basically like a living zombie

I think I'm beginning to understand this thing about exercising to reconstructing the self.
I had an awareness this morning; By surrendering to the delusions that actually make me anxious, it's as if I'm returning closer to the "self," in the infinitely small, and that this tends to dissolve the upper layers; Making me more stoic, brutal, and dry in general.

 

[gettoefl]

22 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

From an unlimited perspective, it makes no difference whether you're a deformed dwarf whose parents sold him to be tortured in front of an audience of psychopaths or a divine interdimensional demigod. It's absolutely irrelevant. Only substance is something; structure is nothing, since it's one possibility among infinite possibilities. Structure is transparent. There's always a structure, and no structure means anything.

From a relative perspective, the change of state of a subatomic particle has a butterfly effect that creates infinite consequences. Everything has infinite meaning; every thought that appears expands into infinite causes and effects in the totality of infinite interconnected forms.

Unlimited perspective means that all the forms expand in infinity and disappear, but the substance can't dissapear, because the substance is precisely absence of limits. But then, from a relative perspective you realize that there is a movement that must be done, Every breath, every brainwave, goes in a concrete direction. Your life is an infinitely interconnected process that's in motion, like the rest of the whole. It's stupid not to take it seriously. It's like playing in the Wimbledon final. It's just a game, but it's absolutely serious. Not a wrong move, perfect focus, perfect alignment. Anything less is stupid. Like being in the Wimbledon final and starting to chat in the phone. it's not something you would do under any circumstances. Life is the same; it's absolutely serious, but there is a purification process that doesn't happen in one day

One day you realize that a certain behavior is stupid, wrong, and you abandon it. Another day you realize that there are repressed feelings that need to be expressed, and you do it, you find the way. Life shows you the direction you should move, and there comes a point where you begin to see that what happens is part of a process. You surrender to the flow, and the outcome of the action isn't as important as the optimal course of action. You join the flow. That's the only way that I see, the way of: everything is meaningless, it's just a game, nothing matters, doesn't work for me. Everything matter from a relative perspective, nothing matters from a unlimited perspective, but both are real, then you can visit the absolute perspective every day and rest in it, open all the contraction and be one with the total, then back to the ground to do what must be done 

There are two things in life that can be said:

“This is so cool and groovy and fine,”

or you can say,

“Enough is enough. This ends with me.”

(channeling my best inner Blake Lively here.)

[Breakingthewall]

41 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

There are two things in life that can be said:

“This is so cool and groovy and fine,”

or you can say,

“Enough is enough. This ends with me.”

(channeling my best inner Blake Lively here.)

Yes life could be very hard, but even that it's life. We have to learn to see through the shit 

[gettoefl]

43 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Yes life could be very hard, but even that it's life. We have to learn to see through the shit 

But should I Stay or should I go?

 

[Breakingthewall]

6 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

But should I Stay or should I go?

 

Fight to the end. What do a few years of suffering matter? If we must suffer, let's suffer. Perhaps in the end, someone will realize that their suffering is beautiful, in fact, its glory. Or maybe not, who knows, but triying is always noble, noble behavior create a noble pattern of existence. 

[gettoefl]

4 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Fight to the end. What do a few years of suffering matter? If we must suffer, let's suffer. Perhaps in the end, someone will realize that their suffering is beautiful, in fact, its glory. Or maybe not, who knows, but triying is always noble, noble behavior create a noble pattern of existence. 

Suffering is two things: 

1. Thinking there is a me here who matters

and

2. The thought I am living a life that matters

1. is the identity error and 2. is how I keep myself from addressing 1. by losing myself in the world.

Better is possible.

[Sugarcoat]

2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Fight to the end. What do a few years of suffering matter? If we must suffer, let's suffer. Perhaps in the end, someone will realize that their suffering is beautiful, in fact, its glory. Or maybe not, who knows, but triying is always noble, noble behavior create a noble pattern of existence. 

I sometimes think to myself ok maybe my life is bad and occasionally I get suicidal thoughts but imagine how much more worse another reincarnation can be in the next lifetime (if there’s such a thing), like medieval torture chamber victim. Who knows what can happen so better not speed it up. Infinity is creative 😂

[PurpleTree]

4 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

I sometimes think to myself ok maybe my life is bad and occasionally I get suicidal thoughts but imagine how much more worse another reincarnation can be in the next lifetime (if there’s such a thing), like medieval torture chamber victim. Who knows what can happen so better not speed it up. Infinity is creative 😂

You don’t even know if there’s reincarnation. So maybe this here is all you get.

[Sugarcoat]

3 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

You don’t even know if there’s reincarnation. So maybe this here is all you get.

Yea but think like this. Okay maybe there isn’t something that “passes on” . But if this life could appear from my perspective, why , in ETERNITY wouldn’t another kind of life appear again from my perspective? Makes no sense that one life would be all there is all of eternity 

[Sugarcoat]

7 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

I think I'm beginning to understand this thing about exercising to reconstructing the self.
I had an awareness this morning; By surrendering to the delusions that actually make me anxious, it's as if I'm returning closer to the "self," in the infinitely small, and that this tends to dissolve the upper layers; Making me more stoic, brutal, and dry in general.

 

I don’t know what you mean by returning closer to the self, and dissolving the upper layers. I have experienced dissolution of layers to the self.

[Sugarcoat]

9 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

From an unlimited perspective, it makes no difference whether you're a deformed dwarf whose parents sold him to be tortured in front of an audience of psychopaths or a divine interdimensional demigod. It's absolutely irrelevant. Only substance is something; structure is nothing, since it's one possibility among infinite possibilities. Structure is transparent. There's always a structure, and no structure means anything.

From a relative perspective, the change of state of a subatomic particle has a butterfly effect that creates infinite consequences. Everything has infinite meaning; every thought that appears expands into infinite causes and effects in the totality of infinite interconnected forms.

Unlimited perspective means that all the forms expand in infinity and disappear, but the substance can't dissapear, because the substance is precisely absence of limits. But then, from a relative perspective you realize that there is a movement that must be done, Every breath, every brainwave, goes in a concrete direction. Your life is an infinitely interconnected process that's in motion, like the rest of the whole. It's stupid not to take it seriously. It's like playing in the Wimbledon final. It's just a game, but it's absolutely serious. Not a wrong move, perfect focus, perfect alignment. Anything less is stupid. Like being in the Wimbledon final and starting to chat in the phone. it's not something you would do under any circumstances. Life is the same; it's absolutely serious, but there is a purification process that doesn't happen in one day

One day you realize that a certain behavior is stupid, wrong, and you abandon it. Another day you realize that there are repressed feelings that need to be expressed, and you do it, you find the way. Life shows you the direction you should move, and there comes a point where you begin to see that what happens is part of a process. You surrender to the flow, and the outcome of the action isn't as important as the optimal course of action. You join the flow. That's the only way that I see, the way of: everything is meaningless, it's just a game, nothing matters, doesn't work for me. Everything matter from a relative perspective, nothing matters from a unlimited perspective, but both are real, then you can visit the absolute perspective every day and rest in it, open all the contraction and be one with the total, then back to the ground to do what must be done 

Beautifully written as usual 

Would you say that the sense of self can be intact as a structure/form, yet it’s simultaneously seen through as not absolutely real, so one is abiding in the “substance”, the limitless, and seeing from the absolute perspective while sense of self is still intact? So it’s like everything is the same but it’s just “seen through” ? Or sense of self has to dissolve as a structure  to be able to  see the absolute?

Edited Tuesday at 07:58 PM by Sugarcoat

[Princess Arabia]

49 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

Would you say that the sense of self can be intact as a structure/form, yet it’s simultaneously seen through as not absolutely real, so one is abiding in the “substance”, the limitless, and seeing from the absolute perspective while sense of self is still intact? So it’s like everything is the same but it’s just “seen through” ? Or sense of self has to dissolve as a structure  to be able to  see the absolute?

The Absolute cannot be seen. It is the seeing itself. The sense of self is illusory and isn't really there so it cannot really dissolve but recognized that it never really happened. That recognition will still be the Absolute appearing as recognizing that. There can be an understanding of the Absolute through the Absolute and a relaxing of the energy structure, but nothing is really seen through because seeing implies someone to see through. It's still the Absolute appearing as "seen through" and "understanding". None of it really means anything because nothing is separate, they are only appearances and like a movie screen with all the appearances happening on the screen which isn't separate from what appears on it. What is seeing through all that; nothing can because it is all one happening. Me talking to you, you talking to breakinthewall, me typing, you typing, all happening in one timeless, spaceless movement.

Edited Tuesday at 08:47 PM by Princess Arabia

[Yimpa]

I am at a loss for words. Trying to explain or understand God using human logic is a mistake.

[gettoefl]

12 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

Beautifully written as usual 

Would you say that the sense of self can be intact as a structure/form, yet it’s simultaneously seen through as not absolutely real, so one is abiding in the “substance”, the limitless, and seeing from the absolute perspective while sense of self is still intact? So it’s like everything is the same but it’s just “seen through” ? Or sense of self has to dissolve as a structure  to be able to  see the absolute?

Withdraw interest in the sense of self in the firm knowledge that it's not you. Cease assigning meaning to what happens. All that is falsehood. Then perception of the world changes accordingly first in glimpses and then prolonged as you align with the truth of what you are. ACIM describes the result as the real world which is as much as you can do yourself since God itself - or your highest self - takes the final step of restoration.